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novomente

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Electronica

Metacity Themes Feb 09 2018
Score 71%
71 Likes
29 Dislikes

Colored Snow

Wallpaper Other Feb 09 2018
Score 50%
50 Likes
50 Dislikes

City XFCE

XFCE/XFWM4 Themes Feb 09 2018
Score 65%
65 Likes
35 Dislikes

Glazy XFCE

FVWM Themes Feb 09 2018
Score 54%
54 Likes
46 Dislikes

Gillet XFCE

XFCE/XFWM4 Themes Feb 09 2018
Score 50%
50 Likes
50 Dislikes

nu XFCE

XFCE/XFWM4 Themes Jan 29 2018
Score 47%
47 Likes
53 Dislikes

Saint Linux

Wallpapers Linux/Tux Dec 20 2017
Score 60%
60 Likes
40 Dislikes

Fugitive

Metacity Themes Sep 25 2017
Score 68%
68 Likes
32 Dislikes

Glazy

Metacity Themes Aug 22 2017
Score 64%
64 Likes
36 Dislikes

City

Metacity Themes Mar 22 2017
Score 60%
60 Likes
40 Dislikes

Plasmatic

GDM Themes Jan 03 2017
Score 67%
67 Likes
33 Dislikes

Gillet

Metacity Themes Dec 28 2016
Score 63%
63 Likes
37 Dislikes

Striped Glassy

Metacity Themes Dec 26 2016
Score 61%
61 Likes
39 Dislikes

Fugitive XFCE

XFCE/XFWM4 Themes Dec 26 2016
Score 58%
58 Likes
42 Dislikes
Score 67%
67 Likes
33 Dislikes
Feb 09 2018
You will get the hidden theme when you remove all .png images off the theme folder. Try to figure it out. Jan 22 2018
Bluecurve Revival 1.1 [NEW] Metacity Themes
7 comments
Score 57%
57 Likes
43 Dislikes
Jan 26 2018
Thanks so much for your vote :-) Jan 18 2018
Thanks for your comment. The XFCE version is done and ready to download. It's name is "Bluecurve Revival XFCE". Jan 17 2018
Bluecurve Revival XFCE 1.0 [NEW] XFCE/XFWM4 Themes
6 comments
Score 57%
57 Likes
43 Dislikes
Jan 18 2018
Thanks so much for your vote :-) Jan 18 2018
You are welcome. If you like this theme you can vote for it ;) Thanks anyway. Jan 17 2018
City 1.1 Metacity Themes
4 comments
Score 60%
60 Likes
40 Dislikes
Mar 22 2017
Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it. Have a nice time with the theme :) Mar 24 2017
Plasmatic 1.1 GDM Themes
7 comments
Score 67%
67 Likes
33 Dislikes
Jan 03 2017
I uploaded a new archive with Plasmatic theme. Download it again and follow the Installation instructions in the "Installation" file located in the theme archive. Now it should be more easy to install Plasmatic theme. Jan 03 2017
OneColor + 4k HiDPI version 2.1 [NEW] Metacity Themes
3 comments
Score 68%
68 Likes
32 Dislikes
Feb 09 2018
Here you are. Beginning of version 1.3 there is the violet version of the theme included. Anyways you can create your own colored theme you want. Just read the "README (easily customize your theme)" file which is located in the themes' archive. ;) Jul 20 2016
Virus Recordings Wallpaper Other
227 comments
Score 42%
42 Likes
58 Dislikes
Dec 12 2001
Nice prototype. The interactivity makes the ideas included more clear. As playground it is perfect.

With HTML5, CSS3 and JavaScript there is a lot of things possible. The UI may look any way. It reminds me a time where applications had their own original look and usability. But at those times it was a problem, because users must learn every application to use.

The problem was solved over years with GUI toolkit (GUI components etc.). Such toolkit was library programmed for each operating system or each Desktop Environment.

It was also a solution to low memory of a desktop computer, where application shared the GUI toolkit in order to save memory footprint.

With HTML5 etc., there is similar problem to per application original look and usage. One can say it can be solved the similar way with programming a HTML, Javascript toolkit. Yes it is possible. But in the end many applications could be unsatisfied with such toolkit and their developers would choose to create their own toolkit. So I think that instead of making a toolkit or HTML/JavaScript API, there must be some guideline (concept) desription which most of application GUIs or most of GUI libraries or most HTML/JavaScript toolkits have to follow.

The guidelines only says how the desktop would look and function. Such thing is already done with Human Interface Guidelines ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_interface_guidelines ) which should the DE guideline stand on and freedesktop.org ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedesktop.org ) which is a project to make X-Window toolkits offer the same usage from a user's experience (such that applications using KDE toolkit would be very similar in usage as applications in GNOME and vice versa). The HTML/JavaScript guideline should play the same role as freedesktop.org.

The guideline must be not too complex in order to allow a wide range of applications to follow it. On the other hand there could be some more guidelines (concepts) for example a General User UI Concept, Administration Concept (concept for system administrators - terminal etc.), Graphics and multimedia concepts (like DTP, 3D creations, movie creations etc.), Server System Concept, and so on.

Maybe we should make difference between a "guideline" term and a "concept" term. The difference is that "guideline(s) is enough general to make wide variety of GUIs following it. The "concept" is more specific and describes for example a HTML/JavaScript "components", desktop, icons, functionality. The concept is only a document describing functionality and look of a toolkit, but it is not programmed toolkit. To explain it exactly lets say the GNOME is a coded toolkit. The GNOME concept is only a document describing the GNOME toolkit. With such description the GNOME developers exactly know what is a Gnome-Shell and what should it do and then they develop the Shell in C++.

So we can make a guideline and then a FluiDE-HTML/JavaScript concept (what is a document describing the FluiDE desktop) and developers can then code their own FluiDE toolkit exactly build for their single application. Then they need not to share any of HTML/JavaScript code among applications from different developer groups and all applications will look and function very similar.

Of course as well as web application frameworks are created (Joomla, Drupal etc.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_application_frameworks ) there could also be finished coded FluiDE toolkit or many other toolkits and frameworks shared among applications from wide range of developers.

The primary goal of a guideline is making usage over wide range of applications very similar (preventing a user to learn how to use every application) etc. The concept is a specific (but still anough general and open) to create UI (to say it exactly the GNOME concept exactly describes the GNOME DE and developers can create their own toolkits and frameworks which would look and behave exactly as a GNOME DE - so there could be per application specific GNOME DEs with or without sharing the framework).

Our task could be only to create very smart concept(s) which they really worth to follow. Plus code a FluiDE DE - as a real working example of what the concept is capable of. And if the FluiDE code will be perfectly written, it could be shared and meet with a success.

These are my thoughts today.
Sep 20 2012
Nice prototype. The interactivity makes the ideas included more clear. As playground it is perfect.

With HTML5, CSS3 and JavaScript there is a lot of things possible. The UI may look any way. It reminds me a time where applications had their own original look and usability. But at those times it was a problem, because users must learn every application to use.

The problem was solved over years with GUI toolkit (GUI components etc.). Such toolkit was library programmed for each operating system or each Desktop Environment.

It was also a solution to low memory of a desktop computer, where application shared the GUI toolkit in order to save memory footprint.

With HTML5 etc., there is similar problem to per application original look and usage. One can say it can be solved the similar way with programming a HTML, Javascript toolkit. Yes it is possible. But in the end many applications could be unsatisfied with such toolkit and their developers would choose to create their own toolkit. So I think that instead of making a toolkit or HTML/JavaScript API, there must be some guideline (concept) desription which most of application GUIs or most of GUI libraries or most HTML/JavaScript toolkits have to follow.

The guidelines only says how the desktop would look and function. Such thing is already done with Human Interface Guidelines ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_interface_guidelines ) which should the DE guideline stand on and freedesktop.org ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedesktop.org ) which is a project to make X-Window toolkits offer the same usage from a user's experience (such that applications using KDE toolkit would be very similar in usage as applications in GNOME and vice versa). The HTML/JavaScript guideline should play the same role as freedesktop.org.

The guideline must be not too complex in order to allow a wide range of applications to follow it. On the other hand there could be some more guidelines (concepts) for example a General User UI Concept, Administration Concept (concept for system administrators - terminal etc.), Graphics and multimedia concepts (like DTP, 3D creations, movie creations etc.), Server System Concept, and so on.

Maybe we should make difference between a "guideline" term and a "concept" term. The difference is that "guideline(s) is enough general to make wide variety of GUIs following it. The "concept" is more specific and describes for example a HTML/JavaScript "components", desktop, icons, functionality. The concept is only a document describing functionality and look of a toolkit, but it is not programmed toolkit. To explain it exactly lets say the GNOME is a coded toolkit. The GNOME concept is only a document describing the GNOME toolkit. With such description the GNOME developers exactly know what is a Gnome-Shell and what should it do and then they develop the Shell in C++.

So we can make a guideline and then a FluiDE-HTML/JavaScript concept (what is a document describing the FluiDE desktop) and developers can then code their own FluiDE toolkit exactly build for their single application. Then they need not to share any of HTML/JavaScript code among applications from different developer groups and all applications will look and function very similar.

Of course as well as web application frameworks are created (Joomla, Drupal etc.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_application_frameworks ) there could also be finished coded FluiDE toolkit or many other toolkits and frameworks shared among applications from wide range of developers.

The primary goal of a guideline is making usage over wide range of applications very similar (preventing a user to learn how to use every application) etc. The concept is a specific (but still anough general and open) to create UI (to say it exactly the GNOME concept exactly describes the GNOME DE and developers can create their own toolkits and frameworks which would look and behave exactly as a GNOME DE - so there could be per application specific GNOME DEs with or without sharing the framework).

Our task could be only to create very smart concept(s) which they really worth to follow. Plus code a FluiDE DE - as a real working example of what the concept is capable of. And if the FluiDE code will be perfectly written, it could be shared and meet with a success.

These are my thoughts today.
Sep 20 2012
I cant make it to work with latest browsers. I only see the BG image, clock and the topbar with only an Overview button. Nothing more. Can you pls, write what browser and what version you are using (where this could work)?

BTW last friday I passed the last of my half-year (semestral) exams on University. So I will have more time now to devote to FluiDE. Next half-year I also will study User Interfaces on University. So I would be more helpfull next year in this matter. Sep 18 2012
Hi and Welcome to the group. It is very nice to see some more person here :)

I have just read your comment. My English is still not perfect, so I had to read it three times and slowly with dictionary and I hope I understand it correctly. As I understand you are talking about booting Operating System. Fast load with text bases windowing system, where you can work in the meantime the GUI is loaded. With the option the GUI need not to be loaded. It sounds like interesting option.

I assume you have also some administrator skills (or Are you an experienced administrator professional?). Ok. In some discussion in my country (not English) I posted my dream when Operating System fully boots in 1 to 3 seconds. I got answers that the long booting is due to BIOS (which makes many checks) and then Linux optimizations (checks, loaded services and loading many mess of unoptimized system). I also got some answers on Operating Systems to load very fast.

For example linux distribution "Tiny Core" boots in VirtualBox at about 7 seconds (counted after pressing Run button). I also got this youtube video, where some guy boots Windows XP in VirtualBox. It is very interesting. I just note that someone commented the video as "When I watched the video, I almost fell off the chair, how fast it worked." - what speaks for itself - link on video follows:

http://youtu.be/H-LinhTC4jw

Some new talks about Microsoft being working on new operating system. It should remove Windows and it should be much smaller in size than Windows. I suppose the system is about virtualisation. But of course Microsoft specific implementation of monopol.

What do you think about fast full system booting? Is is worth to work on it? Or is it better to devote time to get lower UI loaded much faster with possibility to load GUI later?
May 31 2012
Yes I think we can concentrate on that. Few days ago I realized that you, Mike, have ideas about the DE itself and you are good in thinking in that point of view. So I will also try to think in that point of view and bring ideas about the DE. I think we both still bring newer ideas while the basis of DE goes forward.

For example recently I was thinking about small devices with small touch screen. I'm not talking about iPhone like devices. More I think of a "PSION 5mx" device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_5). It has a keyboard and touchscreen, able to be driven with a finger or stylus. Interesting is how the operating system works. And it is interesting to create DE for such device. I got some ideas for the PC DE while I played with the PSION. You can try it too. Here you can download the JAVA based emulator:

http://www.garethjmsaunders.co.uk/psion/emulator32_java.html

here are installation instructions (doesn't need to follow all of them):
http://www.garethjmsaunders.co.uk/psion/emulator32_install.html

here are instructions to run the Emulator:
http://www.andypryke.com/pub/Psion5mx

to start it (the link above) says:
install_derive:\epoc32\release\wins\rel\EPOC.EXE

install_drive is by default C:

This emulator runs on Windows and WINE perfectly.

Note: Although this software is called "emulator" it is only an SDK. But works like an emulator.
Apr 23 2012
I agree. The video shows only some desktop ideas I had 2 years ago. But I think we are working on more lower things which can be used as basis for many Desktop Environments. The Video shows just one.

I have another idea where Document is the main part of what should everything go around. I'm thinking of many applications to share one document space in memory. Each application holds its own specific version of the document and also provide the shared version to the shared RAM.

Although I had some practical ideas on how this could work, I'm still not sure of how this could work. I was also imagining the operating system is the only one application customizing the document, and real today applications are in that point of view only plugins to that operating system. With OS TVc and other DE parts it could work as a small or very big place for creating documents, fully customizable and extensable.

Both ways need something like shared memory manager - Dokument Manager or something, what holds the shared documents and manages the applications (plugins) access.

Thus the final DE should be handling such windows/documents management, where there is no taskbar for switching applications, but only to switch documents and working spaces for them.

That is one of the idea I had 2 years ago too.
Apr 18 2012
I think, David, that you are absolutely right with all you have said.

Firstly the interactive fiction - those text based games were very amusing and had many possibilities. More possibilities than their graphical today versions (Adventures point & click). I was thinking about the text base GUI the same way as you. I wanted to create a text base "kernel" while the GUI could implement it in various ways (with mouse or with keyboard; or with other devices).

The speech I named in TVc is only a future. I meant to develop text based UI with keyboard as a communication device and speech (sometime in the future) would only read the text from memory (synthesize) or use special program for speech recognition (to hear voice) which is converted in a text (and maybe some signs for stress, voice colour and vice versa) with which the OS then works.

Thus the goal I can think recently is only a text based system (without a speech). Interactive fiction is the part I would like to follow.

Secondly the two-dimensional array of pixels. I was talking (in our group) about a "scrollpad". I explained that it is not the point to point device for pixels. More it is a device to move from object to object on the screen (from button to button, from button to text filed, from text field to radio buttons - just to follow X and Y axis and the nearest object).

And that is exactly your proposed frame buffer. I think the mouse could be used the same way as "scrollpad". And both hardware devices - touchpad and mouse - have the ability to become a pixel to pixel pointing device for graphical reasons like image manipulation, 3D graphics etc. Both devices has the capability of using gestures. The touchpad hardware has the advantage that it could be a small or big touchscreen where various things can be displayed and by touching them with finger or with stylus can make appropriate action. The stylus also can be used as a pixel to pixel pointing device, great in handwriting, drawing and also 3D designing.

I think that the frame buffer is the good basis. But to be honest I didn't think of 3D GUI yet, what could be great in some future Human <-> Computer interaction. There are already some devices allowing interaction in a 3D world. The real best known is the XBOX Kinect. Such device (already sold to end users) proposed an era of 3D like devices and many more.

So I would like to think of such matter in our project - looking to a log term living age of it.
Apr 15 2012
I created the proposed long GIF with screenshots. It can be downloaded from the above linked Blog. The file is located in FluiDE files on SourceForge.net though (in "Discussion Files" folder).
Apr 14 2012
Before I answer David to the above comment, I would like to add the final part of the DE concept. I made an animation to describe the main functionality. The second part is about "Document Management" - this part is still not clear idea, but I hope some final version will come up. In the meantime let me present an animation with a first part, describing window and desktop management with Taskbar, Groups and Desktops:

http://novomente-activities.blogspot.com/2012/04/desktop-environment-taskbar-groups-and.html
Apr 13 2012
This is only an image showing OS/2 verticality. It repairs possible broken link from above:

link: http://novomente-activities.blogspot.com/2012/04/os2-v1x-desktop-managers-group-view.html
Apr 12 2012
Few days ago I played with TinyCore - it is a Linux distribution of small size (13mb - yes "13 mega bytes"). It surprised me because into that 13mb it was possible to add graphical user interface and full linux. I was also delighted by its boot/shutdown timings. It is really fast. Many times i was thinking of an OS to boot very quickly. I hoped that future hardware would allow it (boot time = 1 - 3 seconds). But instead new versions of OSs implemented more features and the boot time took longer. This is one point.

Now I was thinking of our FluiDE DE to be as a mockup with windowing UI on text base screen. I intended that just for training and making the development easy while making mockup. I returned to MS-DOS applications and tried to think of some useful text base DE. These are very interesting thoughts. And suddenly my brain surprised me with some idea.

How about to create a DE on text based screen with full GNOME, KDE libraries support. It means to run GNOME/KDE etc applications on that text base screen DE without rewriting them. I think this is possible. But then my thoughts went more forward and I imagined that an application should be fully independent of the DE. I imagined that an application is written once and then only it's UI separated part would vary - ether for KDE or GNOME or text base DE or whatever. And now I'm starting to think of a technology, which makes the development of UI design/functionality possible. That's what we try to work on.

The goal of creating an application is to have that application available for all DEs (GNOME/KDE/XFCE/etc.) without rewriting the main part of it.

The second goal of better Operating System is to have such OS that is very very fast with small memory trace (probably without many features like nice look of the OS), allowing to give the hardware potential possibilities to applications and documents. It means that for example while the OS has not anti alias fonts, it allows the Office application to use them. This is the example of feature less OS and feature rich application model. Well I'm sure some project exists to handle this goal (maybe the "QNX" and others). I just imagine it to be very small and very fast like the TinyCore (but not as small as 13mb). That's why I also imagined the text base screen DE and full potential of it (for some type of usage).
Apr 11 2012
It is good news. As I saw on sourceforge, there are more project which are in a state of preparation or planning. The replay they sent you talks clearly about that the project must be open source. Fhew, glad to hear that ;)

My user name on SourceForge is "novomente".

Today I will have finished first part of animation describing the Desktop Environment I was talking about. Apr 10 2012
It's interesting. It is a programmer's point of view. In windows XP I also hated Ineternet Explorer to show multiple windows in a taskbar. That's why I switched to Firefox 1.0, because of tabbed browsing. But later I had problems where to go to switch to another window because I had 2 locations: the tabs in a Firefox and the Taskbar. It took me some time to learn it. Later in GNOME and KDE I found out multiple desktops as another feature. Today I use it very rarely. But I think that I have nice solution to all 3 problems: tabs, desktops, taskbar. It is a solution from the Pack of ideas I promissed to talk about. And right now I'm working on a (html javascript) mockup to show it. Although the more quick way would be to make a hand drawings and text, as seen on the OMG article. Maybe both would be good.
Apr 08 2012
The word "Usable" is not all bad. I think that you have chosen it because of GNOME3 or Ubuntu Unity user complaints. We can leave it there. I just note that both GNOME3 and Unity are still improving and once they will be usable without wide complaints. So the word "Usable" is a short term original feature. But we can use more words. Everybody knows that each project shortening has more than one meaning.

To tell some funny shortening: for example somebody named the "Windows NT" like "Windows No Thanks" although the project has many original explanations from Microsoft. ;) Apr 07 2012
"FLexible Usable Innovative Desktop Environment" sounds perfect. Although the word "Usable" could be better. That's because of course the DE must be usable, so it is a feature to must have. Try to think about the DE's characteristics. "FLexible" is perfect to be sure. "Innovative" is also perfect. But it still miss something to fully describe the project. I have 2 words in my mind as an example, but I won't write them here in order not to break your imagination ;)

Google Groups seems not perfect, because then we would have to move it to sourceforge. I agree with sourceforge (you have chosen great). My advice are to move to sourceforge imediately (we need only to ask for to be there without functional code for some time) or to stay here on *-look.org" and later move to sourceforge. Having discussions spread round the Internet is (by me) not good idea.
Apr 07 2012
Sourceforge is good (maybe best). There is only one problem. Terms of hosting says that the project must release some code. I'm not sure if they keep us there if we only talk or provide some prototypes. But we can ask by email.

To the name of project. It could be anything. I was thinking on a name FluiDE and found out it could mean "Flexible Lingual (Liberating) Universal Interactive Desktop Environment". But it can be anything. I really did not devote much time to thinking about it. "guipo" sounds good too. Also "quede" could sound good - it is a Spain word which means "to be" in English (or Spanish "Que de" means "that" like in a sentence "person that rocks") and it can be "QueDE" for "Quick User Efficient Desktop Environment" or whatever. Also code name (such as "Chicago" was for "Windows 95") could be "Fontana" - it is a female name and also Italian word for "Fontaine" which is close to what "fluide" mean (Fontaine is streams of liquid - watter).

I must say that I was quick with choosing the examples and the examples are only for imagination purposes. I leave the finding out the good project word on You Mike :) And then I will only vote for some of Your choices.

Also I think that "FluiDE" (or "guipo") is a beautiful name for the final DE release. It could be chosen as a working name for our whole project and then used only for the final DE, while working project gets another code name. I really don't want to be the one choosing a name. But to be honest "FluiDE" I like better than "guipo" because of 2 reasons. First FluiDE is better spelling and reading, second it starts with letter "F" which is different from first letter of Gnome, KDE, Xfce, although Fluxbox starts with "F" too. Well this is a problem of a final DE name.
Mar 30 2012
Here are some links to look at (for You Mike). First set is some free Project Hosting sites (I searched through http://dmoz.org), second set is some Social Networking sites (for IT discussions - MyOpera is general talking) and third is Project Management Software hosting sites (github - free for open source, TikiWiki - free I think):


Project Hosting (free):
----------------------------------------
https://alioth.debian.org
http://www.berlios.de/

http://sourceforge.net/
http://freecode.com/

http://www.tigris.org/
http://gna.org/projects/savane/
http://gitorious.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembla

http://sharesource.org/


Social Networking Hosting:
----------------------------------------
http://www.ryze.com/faq.php
http://www.tigweb.org/about/
http://my.opera.com/community/


Project Management Software
----------------------------------------
https://github.com/plans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiki_Wiki_CMS_Groupware


BTW: Some comments back I talked about my health problems. It could look like I'm joking or something. But I was speaking as seriously as I could. Since health problems is not good subject to talk here, I omit it in future comments.
Mar 29 2012
To the Google Groups. All of us know that we probably need a better communication capabilities of our group on openDesktop.org site. One option is to move to Google Groups. But I think (remember) that it doesn't allow to save files or message attachments. More over there would not be many open source developers or creators attracted by our group. So I think good idea would be to find another service.

Second thing is to ask some questions. Do we need our group to be wide spread public? Or we need our group to be somehow invisible to millions of eyes? Do we need to publicly display our ideas and solutions to prevent some money hungry eyes to use our solutions as some patents or somehow to disallow our project to move forward?

Important question is what people we would like to attract? Developers, Desktop Environment designers and desktop professionals? Script coders? Artists? etc.

Answers can make our movement of the project easier.

Maybe (to have more members) it would be good not to only discuss in some place and wait for new members but also to look for them somewhere and attract them. In the meantime we could have some good place to discuss and work together and welcome new members there. In the end of this comment I'm adding some links to look at.

To the dictating. The good word is "leadership". I don't think, Mike, you are a dictator. You only want to move the project towards to have something visible instead of having it only in the brain. I understand that. It's better to have something like mockup or prototype to work with because it gives you the practical point of view and you can then find out new ideas and solutions. That's why I try to make the universal mockup (or maybe the HTML+JavaScript app) to work with (with good documentation) - at least with some minor functionality.

But back to the subject matter. Speaking for myself my talking could also sound as I was a leader. And simply as you would like to move things forward, I'm doing this - I stop little bit the prototype progress because of to have more complex solution before the prototyping. The reason is not to hurry with starting prototype development because later we could find another better solution with which we can drop the prototype to a trash. But I understand to have some prototype to work with and play with (as I mentioned above).

David on the other hand seems to me very experienced and has very practical points of view. He sees what we can't see and he does not hurry to develop something because he more thinks before some real work. Reason is not to program some code and later finding out that the code could be better because of new prototype approach, ideas, or even programming techniques and problem solutions.

Speaking of leadership - each of us is a leader in some way and in some doing. I think that the work and approach of all of us is not competitive but complementary.

In the future the project would need a leader. But still we are only 3 most active members here and each of us can push others or lead others to concentrate or focus on something.

For example today I wasn't planning to devote the morning to look for a better place for our group communication. But I found out it is a good idea for many reasons so I did it. Since you offered, Mike, to find it out, I'm leaving in the end the results of my search. Most of the links are pages to read and more to search. But the first link is a final result of the place we could be happy with and I think it's worth to look at it:

https://fusionforge.org/

http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Project_Management/Web_Based/Open_Source/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_messaging
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_conferencing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webring
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBSes

http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Chats_and_Forums/
http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Mailing_Lists/
http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/E-mail/Mailing_Lists/Hosted_Services/
http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/On_the_Web/Weblogs/
http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/On_the_Web/Message_Boards/

http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Searching/Directories/
Mar 25 2012
I promised to create some TVc mockup. Unfortunately I have not much free time to devote to it but I'll try to create it as soon as possible. I was also thinking to create an application for creating Desktop Environment mockups. The technology of both (TVc and mockup app) would be HTML4 or HTML5 + JavaScript.

I was also thinking of Macromedia/Adobe Flash because I found out technique how to run trial program of Flash (Creative Suite) on Linux for never ending time. Since David talks about having trouble with viewing YouTube (flash) videos, I decided to use HTML+JavaScript instead.
Mar 24 2012
Quote:The trick is get man and machine to work together as a team. I don't think we have done very well on this so far - but it is a great goal
I agree. On the university I want to study Artificial Intelligence (AI). When I was at elementary school I met with AI and always wanted to create a software capable of human intelligence. Today I understand that Neumann type machines as well as other are not capable of such AI. Today my idea is to create "AI of Neumann computer type" which means to understand the machine and cerate its own "AI personality" with characteristics the machine is good at. So the quote above I understand as to make two ways approach - computer getting closer to human and human getting closer to computer to (understand each other).

BTW - I want to thank you, David, for your criticism. It is great to have you in our project as a person which thinks with feet on the ground :)
Mar 13 2012
I want to deeply apologise about the term I used to talk about people with mental disease. I also did not hear nor use this term for 10 maybe more years, when the term was not understood being so offensive in my country as it is now. I have a big difficulties with using English or even my natural language as, due to undertaking some medical procedures to heal my very serious disease, I sometimes (or nearly often) can't recall some words (terms and also daily used words) and the word which my brain recalls is not the good one but is only one.

At the case of mental disease I couldn't recall any of the term but the term I used. Maybe if I had a look in the dictionary I could find better term. But I was too concentrated on computer matter as I did not have a look. Maybe my apologise could be better accepted if I say that my disease is similar to mental disease but in a different way. While using the wrong term after those years and under concentration about the comment's object matter and with my problems with my memory functionality I was not aware of its offensive meaning and thus miserable wrong usage.

My English is not good and I have written this apologise with a big help of dictionary so I hope that it is said well in the terms of meaning.
Mar 11 2012
I think, Mike, that you understand it perfectly. Although my comment you react on is not perfectly written :)

I share my opinions with yours about it. An expert for human brain thinking would be a great help. I agree that this subject is very interesting and suggest you to think how you do your work - i.e. while you do something, just flashback in some time periods on how your brain was thinking while doing a things. The period need not to be sharp as every 5 minutes flashback. Just after some inaccurate portion of time doing something, go back in your mind and try to realise, how your brain was thinking. That is the best practice to learn your own brain way of thinking and through this, you can then better understand a way of thinking of other people.

I started this doing (this study) 15 years ago. While travelling in the subway/metro, while walking streets, while working or studying at school, while at home, in a cinema, in a theatre. I studied my own brain thinking and brain thinking of other people (and animals), people looking on the TV screen or people inside a TV. Just when I had time for it and I remind that I could do it, I enjoyed watching people and studied them. It was a lot of fun and a very interested study. :)

Quote:I think that instead of computers being a “slave” that we order what we want it to do, computers should assist our natural brain thinking patterns, and develop our brain rather than damage it.
Well this sentence should be a LAW for developing computer interface. And could be a basic rule in developing the things we are trying to make here in our group. :)
Mar 11 2012
Thank you Mike for your announce of the availability of HUD. I tried it out :) I had some difficulties with the installation, but solved it out - solution is written in the end of this comment.

It was good to have experience with real HUD working. Although the HUD is only a searching tool, as we were saying some comments back, it surprised me unexpectedly. The first thing I found out is that the HUD is more difficult to understand and use - at least for the first time. But let me explain it.

In today applications and operating system we have menus and buttons and radio or check buttons and we can click on various things in the window to make settings, editing etc. When accessing such settings or buttons or menus a user can easily distinguish what the mouse click is doing. I mean when accessing a menu for example a user have to go through menus and sub-menus what makes him be well oriented what exactly the menu item does when clicking it. When clicking a button a user knows exactly what the button does.

I mean that the brain of a user must do some thinking procedure to reach a goal and he can be well oriented in the time of reaching it (while going through the menus and sub-menus and buttons etc.) and he can think well on what he is trying to do and creating. When searching with HUD user's brain process is not started. So when typing a command to HUD, user have to wait for results. And when the HUD displays the results, the user have no easy clear idea of what the options offered by HUD do.

To explain it more imagine you are in a kitchen and want to prepare some delicious meal. If you are in your own kitchen you know where are the kitchen stuff. Plates are in some cabinet, forks, knives and spoons are in some drawer, you have some meat in fridge, you have special place for potatoes, or frozen vegetables or onions and spices. When you cook you do some procedure. You get the meat from fridge, get onions, potatoes, spices etc.

While searching the necessary ingredients you can think on how you would like to prepare the meal. You can think on how you cut onions and wash the meat. You can think of what spices you will use and what vegetables will you prepare. Than you start cooking and you search and get necessary tools - knives, spoon, peeler etc. While searching and getting them, you can think on various things about how will you cook the meal and you can think creatively. I'm talking mostly about your brain thinking in the meantime while searching ingredients and tools and while cooking.

Now imagine you have only one big drawer in the kitchen. In that drawer you have everything - food (meat, onions, potatoes), tools (spoon, knives, forks, teaspoons), spices, dishes, everything. Now the big drawer is a mess. But you have one great option. You can type in the drawer what you want and the drawer will show you 5 things matching your search - it is a mix result i.e. there is food and piece of tools and piece of dishes - 5 pieces altogether. The other content is invisible. Now you can take what the drawer offered you, and when the offer doesn't show you what you need, you have to type in a better searching term.

Now imagine what the brain is doing while searching in that big drawer. You type search and drawer offer you some 5 pieces. While searching you wait because the offer of the drawer will be a little surprise (what it will find?). When it finds 5 pieces they are not categorised or organised in a logical manner. So everything you do is get the pieces you need but in your brain you can't think about your cooking. The thinking procedure is only like this: type a term -> wait what drawer offer you -> get the staff you wanted.

But if you have normal kitchen with its tables, drawers, fridges and cabinets and cupboards, the things are organised. And while searching necessary things through organised places, your brain can in the meantime easily think about cooking procedure and think on how would you prepare the meal (with some creativity).

But back to HUD. Also at the beginning of work with HUD I did not know what should I type to it. With today menu you can go through it and learn what the application can do. But I understand that it is only a problem of time to learn what to write to HUD and problem of usage habit.

Although I've written some thoughts about HUD and the thoughts are looking like criticism, I think that HUD is great feature. Of course. We also think on similar text base computer control. But let me write about a lesson I have learned.

The lesson I learned starts surprisingly. It is that Apple style (GUI + mouse clicks) is making people lazy. Just start to search menu items with the HUD. Can you remember names of menu items? If you can answer YES, you are happy person. But let me continue. I remember some CEOs (Chief Executive Officers) speaking of that they don't use computers because the work with them make their brain thinking wrong. CEO needs some way of thinking to lead the company and computers destroy that way of thinking. So working with computers destroy their abilities and capabilities.

This reminds me one idea I had some years ago. To work with computers can be very easy or hard. Easy way (apple philosophy) can help kids and some people with limited brain abilities (people born to be mongoloid or people after a car crash with head injury etc.). But also it can make clever people to be lazy or destroy their capabilities. Hard way on the other hand can be difficult for many people, although very clever people may be happy with that.

It's similar to computer games. Some games are hard to play, some are easy. Some people prefer some kind of games (adventures, strategy, shooters) because they satisfy their way of thinking and their cleverness and capabilities. To make a single game to be the good fun, a player can choose from game difficulty (easy, normal, hard). If the game did not have such option it could have only one difficulty. Now player could become bored if the game was too easy or he can be unsatisfied if the game was too hard. Similarly I thought about operating system.

Operating system could be controlled easily or hard or medium. Maybe you already know where I target this idea. I think that it could be nice feature of the operating system or our desktop environment to set difficulty of controlling it. Just set the difficulty (easy, normal, hard and vice versa) and the OS will makes appropriate changes in the Desktop Environments settings. Single settings can be then more altered.

Moreover I was talking about types of games (adventures, shooters, strategy). I think that Linux should offer more ways of controlling computer. And we can make such options possible while developing a technology or programming techniques. I was talking little bit about it already - it was to make application to look like a game for kids or to look like a comics or look like a windows or look like a Sun OS or look like a 3D space etc.

But back to the HUD. Everybody knows that HUD is at hard development and it has a beginning features. The problem with users orientation of what a HUD result item does can be solved somehow. There are many solutions including using graphics and text to display what the item does. It depends on HUD developers how they handle it. And it depends on us how we handle this in our project.

That's all for now. In the end I would like to write how to install HUD (applicable on 2012-03-08).


Installing HUD
--------------
The old way to install HUD was type to the terminal these 2 commands

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:unity-team/hud
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

Since the HUD is not in the /hud folder of the ppa, the first command doesn't work. Instead the HUD can be found in the "staging" folder so the first command should look like this:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:unity-team/staging

Both commands look like this (for installing HUD) and typing them to terminal will install the HUD:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:unity-team/staging
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

Note: to get the HUD popup just press the ALT button.
Mar 09 2012
OK. I understand what you are talking about. The folder type is so minor idea that it is no need to devote more time to it unless someone has new idea coming from it (executable folders plugin?). Feb 26 2012
I'm only reprinting my comment from above - in case you didn't read it:

Maybe I described the folder type in a wrong way. Everything I wanted to solve with the folder types was a different folder icon image of a folder with different content, nothing more. So when naming a folder like this (for example) "My text files.docs", the File Manager will recognise the extension ".docs" and instead of a default folder icon image it will display a special icon image for Documents. In Gnome you can change default icon in a properties window. But the solution with naming folder with extension is more fast.

Yesterday I realised that folder type extension is not good way to go. Reason shows this name for example "Photos.images". Name like this looks not lucid. Moreover the dot "." in the folder name may conflict with JAVA (and other) programming language guidelines. So I find out better solution. It's to recognise the folder type from last or first word (or substring of word for some languages) of a folder name. Thus folder with "Photos" name can File Manager represent as Images icon and "My text documents" may be presented with Documents icon and vice versa. This is a feature of a File Manager application. So it can be implemented in a different ways in different File Managers. In our File Manager case it could be a plug-in.

What I like is the idea of an executable folder you were talking. To access a web page folder will open the index.html file or to open an application installation folder would start an install shell script etc. It could be also a feature of a File Manager (as plug-in).

Seems that new ideas are coming up more frequently.
Feb 26 2012
Maybe I described the folder type in a wrong way. Everything I wanted to solve with the folder types was a different folder icon image of a folder with different content, nothing more. So when naming a folder like this (for example) "My text files.docs", the File Manager will recognise the extension ".docs" and instead of a default folder icon image it will display a special icon image for Documents. In Gnome you can change default icon in a properties window. But the solution with naming folder with extension is more fast.

Yesterday I realised that folder type extension is not good way to go. Reason shows this name for example "Photos.images". Name like this looks not lucid. Moreover the dot "." in the folder name may conflict with JAVA (and other) programming language guidelines. So I find out better solution. It's to recognise the folder type from last or first word (or substring of word for some languages) of a folder name. Thus folder with "Photos" name can File Manager represent as Images icon and "My text documents" may be presented with Documents icon and vice versa. This is a feature of a File Manager application. So it can be implemented in a different ways in different File Managers. In our File Manager case it could be a plug-in.

What I like is the idea of an executable folder you were talking. To access a web page folder will open the index.html file or to open an application installation folder would start an install shell script etc. It could be also a feature of a File Manager (as plug-in).

Seems that new ideas are coming up more frequently.
Feb 25 2012
First I would like to thank you Mike for the comment about software patents. It is good to have in mind that in the USA and Japan the software patents exist and this matter is here mentioned in the right place. Although I live in Europe region where software patents don't exist (happy to that :) I think that we have to keep them in mind in order not to disable our work (or creation) to be used in the USA or Japan due to software patents. But it's obvious that while creating ideas we can play with everything (including software patents) to bring ideas which are not patented and may be better than patented solutions.

BTW I dislike software patents because they inhibit software development progress. To be honest I wanted start a company to make cheap software alternatives (of Adobe, Microsoft etc.) and I was thinking of defending my intellectual property also with patents. But later I realised that to create that cheaper alternatives I must also obey software patents of others what almost makes the task impossible (to make the software cheap). That's why the software patent exist - to disallow competition prior to defend intellectual property. And these days this prior is true and active for all intellectual property. Now I don't want to start any company because I know how difficult it is for a software company to make it's way these days. Instead I would like to make "my" ideas become reality whether as an open source or as me being a company worker. I prefer open source but soon or later I have to make some money to eat, live and work.

To the icon movement drag-and-drop. I also think that there is no good reason to display the dragged icon/icons over a desktop. Still there must be some visualisation of the fact that the icon/icons are properly dragged. I also dislike to drag one or more icons over a desktop in today OS's because they display the dragged icon/icons and overlay the desktop with them what prevents seeing what's underneath. This is an Apple way but it's not good. Instead it is enough (while using mouse and arrow pointer) to display small icon close to the arrow pointer (as seen in KDE while executing an application) and a number of icons dragged. Or we can use another way or make another solution.

Also I like David's ideas and solutions with drag-and-drop and clipboard.

In the end I would like to ask you David: How Donald Knuth prevented new ideas to become software patents? He described ideas and release them to the public in a printed book? Is that the way? Is it enough to make ideas public in this website (our group) to prevent them become software patents? Although I'm not afraid of it but I still think of a Microsoft guys to go to this group, read the ideas presented here and make them software patents.
Feb 25 2012
Your reply is very interesting.

It gave me an idea. It's obvious that each file in Windows has an extension (.exe .txt). But folders don't have one. When I see many folders in a File Manager, it's a list of the same icons. Only special folders (Music, Photos, Documents, Home) have special icon (folder icon with some symbol on it). What if a folder name include an extension (.home .text .photos .cpp)? Then we can have special icons for the folder type and display such icon as a folder icon. Then the list of folders in the File Manager will look more lucid.

This idea can be simply implemented to the Linux. It's only a question of a folder naming (by user) and File Manager (and relevant applications) implementation. Special folder can be then displayed as standard folder icon with a small symbol type image overlaying the standard folder icon.


Another idea is tags. Well it's not tags itself because tags is very old idea. But let me think. Many people would like to use tags for searching and organizing some database. BUT almost all common users hate attaching tags to an item. Typical usage is Firefox with its bookmark tags. The tagging is already well implemented but its a user who must attach tags to bookmarks. I think that huge portion of users don't use this feature, including me. Unless the tagging system is automatic.

Many times I was thinking of automatic tagging add-on for Firefox. I have almost final specification but I have no time to make the add-on. Seems that now it's good time to talk about tagging the files and folders. I hope You know that Nautilus implements an "Emblems" feature. Emblem is a small symbol image which can be attached to the file or folder. Well I don't use it but you can find it in the Nautilus's sidebar where Bookmarks or Folder tree are (and on an Emblems tab in the Properties of the file/folder window in GNOME 2).

There are some automatic emblems attaching like: file only for reading, unreachable folder etc. I think that implementing tagging to the file system must have automatic characteristics. I'm not sure how to create tags of a file automatically. But one solution would be to create tags from a name of a file, its mime type, name of folders in the file's path (including folder extension described above) and maybe file content (text, dominant color of an icon, picture properties - large, big, small, mp3 details, shell script, XML, HTML etc.)

With tags we have better way to present things graphically and textually. Tagging system could be implemented in the Linux kernel or somewhere higher (as a service ?).
Feb 22 2012
Do you know what I like on Stripes the best? It's the verticality. Although the idea is not original (I saw verticality in OS/2 etc. already), Windows for example somehow always forget to implement verticality and uses horizontality instead.

What I really dislike on Windows File Manager is that there are lot of views made in horizontal organization. The default view - icon view - where there are icons side by side with file name below icon, was good in old Operating Systems because there were not too many files and folders. But today, this view is a pain. For example to search an application in GNOME Shell by listing their icons (icon view) is horrible when there is a lot of applications. The good on GNOME Shell is the search bar to search application.

Windows has another views. But always, when there is some implementation of icon view (with the file name beside icon), icons are arranged side by side. :( Thus I use always the list view, where icons are small as the file names and the icons with the file name beside the icon are organized vertically. In Linux (GNOME or KDE) there is an option to make icons organized vertically with any icon size and with the name beside the icon (Nautilus Icon view with names beside icons, List view and Compact view).

The quickest way to search among icons with file names on some side of icon in left-to-right direction languages is when icons are organized vertically with file names beside icons. This is the default view in OS/2 version 1.x Desktop Manager's group view as seen on this image:

http://fluide-attach.googlecode.com/files/os2_desktop_manager.gif
btw...first time I use FluiDE-attach google code page, Mike ;)

You can see that the verticality is very old idea (and implemented by Microsoft! - but only once :( )

I have also the practice in searching among image thumbnails. For example when I search some image to make it a wallpaper in a folder of many images, the quickest way for me is to have 2 thumbnails side by side and this organized vertically. You can imagine this by viewing the OS/2 1.x Desktop Manager's group view (image linked above), where in the group view window there are 2 images side by side (left and right) below which there are next 2 images side by side, below which there are next 2 images side by side etc. This is the quickest way for me to search image by watching the thumbnails (not their (file) names which are below the thumbnails and of which the best search is the Nautilus compact view (or Windows List view)).

The thumbnail search, described in the previous paragraph (for me) is the best view of Windows Metro app tiles in group, what I used in the Stripes + Windows Metro apps comment. Just imagine you have Metro apps tiles with very similar colors organized in 4 or 5 tiles side by side in a vertical view. Imagine the GNOME Shell application list (icon view) with many applications there. I think this is not good. But Windows Metro "Start" page is good, because there is only one category (group) - the metro apps. In the Stripes there are more categories - Applications, Files, Webpages etc. So I think good view is exactly the vertical view of one group (Applications) where there are 2 (or at maximum 3) Metro apps' tiles side by side (consider large and small screen) organized verticaly.

I just note the Asian pictography (Chinese, Japanese, Korean). Organization of symbols is vertical (they write from top to bottom, next "line" is aside the previous (vertical organisation in columns). The symbol represents an icon. Asians found out the best way to read symbols (from top to bottom) with history of thousand years (Egyptian hieroglyphs were also organized vertically - as far as I know).

In the end I would like to ask "What is the best way to represent something graphically - Image tile, icon, some symbol?" - also consider other representations like some text article, shell command, financial information, mathematical equation, chemical representation, etc.
Feb 22 2012
Is it possible to merge Martin Gimpl's Stripes with Windows 8 Metro apps? I made an image to show the merge. I think it breaks the beauty of Stripes Philosophy, but it is only for our thoughts about new things.

http://novomente-activities.blogspot.com/2012/02/stripes-windows-metro.html
Feb 20 2012
Is it possible to merge Martin Gimpl's Stripes with Windows 8 Metro apps? I made an image to show the merge. I think it breaks the beauty of Stripes Philosophy, but it is only for our thoughts about new things.

http://novomente-activities.blogspot.com/2012/02/stripes-windows-metro.html

BTW - I must note something to David - Although I can release my imagination to fly long time ahead and above, or I have only some crazy ideas or thoughts, when I must make some real concepts I'm able to think with feet on the ground. And when making final decisions I'm able to strike all thinking and ideas with thin line and decide for older proved but better solutions :) Feb 20 2012
I have never seen iPod control in action until yesterday when I read your replay and saw some videos on youtube. And I say YES, the scroll-pad is exactly as iPod Thumb Wheel. Although there is a difference. iPod Thumb Wheel is 1 dimensional - you can move your finger round the circle forward and backward which moves the highlighter through the menu items (up/down) etc. The scroll-pad is 2 dimensional - you can move your finger up/down what moves the highlighter through the menu items (up/down) AND you can move your finger left/right what opens/closes submenu etc.

The "etc." means other highlighting, selecting and vice versa. So I understand why scroll-pad reminds you iPod :)

BTW I make some mockup to show some action with TVc and scroll-pad (as I think about it recently). Feb 12 2012
Hello again guys. Last week I have passed all exams on University, so I can continue my study in next half year. And of course continue adding comments in our group. Before I start to talk about I promised to talk, I would like to react on your last comment, Mike.

I think you are absolutely right about building something on top of Linux like Windows 8 does with the new apps keeping the old desktop as an app. What I would like to mention are new apps themselves. I'm not sure how they work, but depending on what I heard and saw, it seems that Metro apps (if you meant them) are built for Metro desktop and do not function somewhere else. Again I'm not sure about it. So I think that we should make only new apps or even new versions of old apps to have our desktop (TVc etc.) abilities, while keeping their old desktop functionalities. It means that when used in other desktops (GNOME, KDE) they will function well there without TVc and other abilities. I mean that the apps will function well without our new technologies and abilities.

If the Metro apps function this way, then I apologize for this comment and say that You are absolutely right Mike.

Now the promised ideas talking.

The TVc (to be honest the name I made when I started my comment about it, what took me about 2 minutes and I've chosen it as well remember-able as "colored TV = TeleVision color" ;) , but of course the meaning is exactly "Text Voice control" which is exactly a name created for the reason of distinguishing it from the HUD, nothing more :).

OK so TVc means Text Voice control. Although I made some comments previously I would like to write it again. I don't think the voice control will be the primary control of a computer. At least till the computer will have the ability to understand human language 100% correctly. I remember the first mobile phones to have voice dialing. You could say a name of a person and the phone dialed the number. But that feature was a terrible implementation and nobody used it (a lot of jokes and funny videos were made about it). So I agree absolutely with David in that to have good voice recognition for the reason of dictating a text into the text editor instead of typing it with a keyboard. Thus the TVc should be at first a text control.

David said that mouse is a clever device but should go away off a common computer control. I think that this could be a near future but the mouse would not go away completely. There is still many devices sold without the possibility of touching it with finger or stylus. Also when using a notebook or touchscreen in a vehicle or a sea ship (where the desk is unstable) the control with a stylus or with a common desk mouse is not as it should be. Still there are some human tasks to do in such environments. Keyboard is good, touch-pad is also good, but better to use keyboard with arrow keys.

There is one disadvantage of a keyboard. It is the ability of drawing a distance on a desktop. This is exactly the perfect task for mouse or stylus, which are more sharp than finger touch which is the third today common control able to do it. Applications like CAD, 3D design or 2D drawing are perfect for mouse or stylus. But both devices lack the ability of writing letters. Stylus has this ability but keyboard is faster.

I was thinking of it to drive TVc with a keyboard. I realized that we can have something, what I call a scroll-pad. It looks exactly as touch-pad on a notebook. But the draw with a finger across the touch-pad doesn't move a pointer on windowed screen. Instead it scrolls something (text, menu etc.). This scrolling is similar to a mouse wheel simulated on a touch-pad. When scrolling a text or a highlight over menu items on a keyboard you have to relocate your fingers on arrow keys or PageUp/PageDown keys. But they haven't the ability of touch-pad. If we have a touch-pad on a keyboard, we could relocate the fingers on a touch-pad and scroll with a draw. The draw could be similar rather to mouse draw than mouse wheel scroll. Such device could be used to better control of our new Desktop Environment.

There is one advantage of a touch-pad (or scroll-pad). It is gestures and multi touch. Lets say you have a window with some preferences. In today mouse windowing DEs you have radio buttons, check boxes, drop down menus, buttons etc. But imagine a radio buttons to look like an examination test:

Type in a number of your choice: |___|
1. search files/folders
2. search images
3. search documents
4. search music
5. search movies
6. etc.

This all is one item in a menu. Now you can move to that menu item with keyboard arrows. When the menu item is highlighted you have the option to type a number of your choice or type a text of your choice (the typed text will be quickly searched among the choices) - this is a keyboard way. Or you can use scroll-pad to highlight the menu item and then you have the option to draw a number of your choice with a finger on a scroll-pad (gesture).

Now imagine you have a window full of similar menu items and you wish to end setting the choices in a window. With today mouse and windowed DE you have something like "OK" button and "Cancel" button etc. With keyboard you can move from button to button with arrow keys and press some accept key. Or for an "OK" button you can press "Enter" key or similar. But with scroll-pad you have the option to draw a gesture (which could be same for "OK" in all applications and same for "Cancel" in all applications etc.) without scrolling to or selecting the "OK" or "Cancel" button.

And now little bit more. There is one great computer, not well sold, but perfect for this idea. It is the "Asus Eee Keyboard" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASUS_Eee_Keyboard). The perfect idea is the small touchscreen on the right side of it. It has the ability to show some controls on the screen which you can touch with a finger tip. Such touch is equivalent to a button press, or menu choice. Now imagine you have such touchscreen with all the ability of a scroll-pad I described above.

With such device you have the possibility to scroll, draw a line, draw a gesture AND choose one or more of displayed choices. It could be good for example to make a choice of the above described radio buttons (which look like an examination test) by touching a finger on a button displayed on the touchscreen-scroll-pad. This could be very good for kids. I can also imagine special desktop environment without any text and with only icons and images for kids which cannot read or write.

This is an idea I got few days ago. It is an initial version of the idea and I suggest to imagine it and little play with it to find other ideas. Feb 06 2012
Quote:With all this talk about a new menu concept, I started to wonder how relevant "applications" are anymore. I alluded to this previously (where I suggested that files were the focus rather than the app), but what if apps simply "extensions" of the OS, all accessed from a single UI? For example you would type or say "email joe" and it would then customize the UI to better fit the task, but remain essentially unchanged. So basically, I'm saying there should be little or no difference between lauching a program and using it. An application would then be nothing more that a collection of capabilities for a library, with some instructions on how the OS should present those ablilties. The OS would do everything else.

Exactly. I had this idea too. I imagined every application be a plugin into the OS with single (or multiple types) of user control. The whole OS will then be nothing more than a single application extensible by plugins (the app plugins - libraries etc.). I was also thinking of technical issue little bit and talk about some technical things of this idea when we were talking about today application plugins (in previous comments some time ago). But it has one problem. It is the OS itself. It would be a lot of work to do and maybe even to redesign the OS. Well thats a deal like whole computer world. :) - redesign Linux from the root :D

OK nice ideas. But we are still only 3 here most active in our group. Although this group can start a UI interface revolution from XEROX era still we must concentrate on reachable goals (as David said). To define some nearby task of our work would require a balance between the imagination and thinking with feet on the ground. Both points of view are correct (I think) at least few days or weeks (maybe months) before thinking in real tasks.

But it all is so exciting that I have the same feeling: start some pre-work, think on technical issues, determine some final goals. Make some thing which will do something we are talking about here.

OK but without a hurry I will speak for a few days about the whole pack of ideas I got in my mind 2 years ago. Surely you will have another ideas and thoughts from many points of view. When we discuss the ideas coming up in our minds next days we can realize that we can lay down some real reachable goals and maybe a good start of some tries and real work. It seems that it depends on us whether we provide something what will attract another guys to join this group (at least).
Jan 28 2012
Quote:With all this talk about a new menu concept, I started to wonder how relevant "applications" are anymore. I alluded to this previously (where I suggested that files were the focus rather than the app), but what if apps simply "extensions" of the OS, all accessed from a single UI? For example you would type or say "email joe" and it would then customize the UI to better fit the task, but remain essentially unchanged. So basically, I'm saying there should be little or no difference between lauching a program and using it. An application would then be nothing more that a collection of capabilities for a library, with some instructions on how the OS should present those ablilties. The OS would do everything else.

Exactly. I had this idea too. I imagined every application be a plugin into the OS with single (or multiple types) of user control. The whole OS will then be nothing more than a single application extensible by plugins (the app plugins - libraries etc.). I was also thinking of technical issue little bit and talk about some technical things of this idea when we were talking about today application plugins (in previous comments some time ago). But it has one problem. It is the OS itself. It would be a lot of work to do and maybe even to redesign the OS. Well thats a deal like a whole computer world. :) - redesign Linux from the base :D

OK nice ideas. But we are still only 3 here most active in our group. Although this group can start a UI interface revolution from XEROX era still we must concentrate on reachable goals (as David said). To define some nearby task of our work would require to balance between the imagination and thinking with feet on the ground. Both points of view are correct (I think) at least few days or weeks (maybe months) before thinking in real tasks.

But it all is so exciting that I have the same feeling: start some pre-work, think on technical issues, determine some final goals. Make some thing which will do something we are talking about here.

OK but without a hurry I will speak for a few days about the whole pack of ideas I got in my mind 2 years ago. Surely you will have another ideas and thoughts from many points of view. When we discuss the ideas coming up in our minds next days we can realise that we can lay down some real reachable goals and maybe a good start of some tries and real work. It seems that it depends on us whether we provide something what will attract another guys to join this group (at least).
Jan 28 2012
You understand it correctly. But menus will not go away. I describe the user will work with the UI (toolbars, windows, panes etc.). The menus are replaced by bookmarks hierarchy similar to Firefox's Bookmarks Toolbar. The hierarchy is folders within there are bookmarks and subfolders within each are another bookmarks and another subfolders ... etc. One bookmark represents one menu item (one action for example "Open File..."). Folders and subfolders are menus and submenus. Both the today applications' menu and the Bookmarks Toolbar are exactly the same. They only differ in that the Bookmarks Toolbar is fully customizable by user.

I suggest that there will be something like Bookmarks Toolbar profiles where the whole Bookmarks hierarchy will be defined. Then changing a profile will completely (or not completely - it depends on our development) change the Bookmarks Toolbar hierarchy. When you imagine the Bookmarks Toolbar replacing today applications' menu then changing a profile will completely change the application menu (in today application point of view). There could be some profiles predefined by application developers, there could be profiles created by user, there could be profiles which behaves like a bookmarks history (i.e. used bookmarks in the last session of application etc.) We can just imagine what all can we do with it.

When working with menu (Bookmarks Toolbar) you can easily reach your tasks, such as Open File... etc by browsing it (same as you do it today). But application can do more task then there are in bookmarks. And these task are reached over TVc (I just note that over TVc are reached all tasks - i.e. also those already present in a menu (bookmarks toolbar). User then have the option to make a bookmark in bookmarks toolbar (menu) for the task reached by using TVc, so he need not next time to search task with TVc again but rather go to the menu (bookmarks toolbar) hierarchy to look for it. So the user have the option to create his own specific menu (bookmarks toolbar) with tasks the application is possible to handle. I just note that user can manage the menu hierarchy (i.e. move, create and delete bookmarks and folders) and user can create countless profiles.


Quote:Another thing I would say would make your idea more complete would be to still have a hiarchy in the commands; so related things are grouped together, even if not visible to the user. That way the computer can make smarter choices.
Well this problem is solved by the thing which I called the "action logic" 2 comments back. Imagine the application task to be similar to programming language commands or functions or procedures. Then the application has its own specific language to write "action logic" i.e. to write "programs" to assemble more complex tasks. We just need to standardize the way the application tells TVc what tasks it can handle. In this standard there should be included also the logic of usage of the tasks for the user easily find the task he wants (i.e. that what you were talking in the quote above).

I must tell that TVc IS NOT the tool for only searching predefined tasks. More it is also the tool to allow user to assemble for example new tasks the application can handle but has not defined in the action logic. When I was talking about the action logic programming language I had in my mind the option the user can "program" (write or assemble) new tasks (from the commands, functions, procedures). One of the TVc feature is the AI using for communicating to user, search for predefined tasks intelligently and ALSO offer to assemble new tasks (in some easy way), which are not defined in the application tasks database.

You can imagine that as if you work with GIMP and when you need some new special effect the GIMP cannot handle, you can use TVc to write a completely new effect (by ScriptFu or python). But in an easier way than writing a program because the application's "action logic" will describe the possibilities of what application is capable of rather what tasks it can solve (i.e. what task has predefined).

And thats very interesting and thats why the Interactive Fictions are helpful on one hand but insufficient on the other hand. What makes our thinking more creative. :)
Jan 28 2012
Thank you for the info. Today I have read the Wikipedia page of Interactive Fiction and realized it is also a term of text adventures (fully text based or with graphics and/or animations, but driven by typing a text). Well I remember text games. I played them on my old Commodore 64 which was my first computer I had. I loved text adventures because they could describe worlds with only borders of people imagination. Also at 80's the Operating System were text based (on Commodore 64 it was BASIC).

But back to Interactive Fiction (the IF abbreviation also mean the programming command IF, used for branching, the base of IF games). I remember writing my short IF games, when I learned BASIC programming language (I called them something like 'kidding1' 'kidding2' etc):

10 PRINT "Hello, my name is COMPUTER. Do you want to talk to me?"
20 INPUT A$
30 IF A$ = "yes" GOTO 60
40 IF A$ = "no" THEN PRINT "O.K. See you later."
50 STOP
60 PRINT "OK Lets talk. What is your name?"
70 INPUT A$
80 ........... etc.

To be honest I thought the text games (Interactive Fictions) are dead. But now you are telling me they still alive. :)

The good thing about it is (what you have said) the development of language syntax of IF games did not stop and I (We) can study it. When I was thinking of the TVc, I talked about in last comment, I got text games in my mind. But I did not mean the TVc to have the same text base control as the IF games. But rather similar. I did not think of technical issue yet. But I suppose the TVc must include the whole people language dictionary with resolved synonyms and some natural language logic because I don't want the users to learn commands like (GO NORTH, USE THING etc.) The application then includes a file where the actions, it can do, are written in a format the TVc would understand.

I suppose the TVc should solve the difference among world people languages and avoid this problem to be handled by applications. But applications must have the option to add own vocabulary of application specific words to TVc. Although I talk about adding words I also mean the natural language logic with synonyms etc. TVc also solves the natural language syntax. When I was programming on Commodore 64 I also made applications using such control - including only a part of vocabulary (pity I don't have the applications saved somewhere but I think it's easy to imagine that).

I also think the TVc would learn the user's language (I'm not sure about the problem of users privacy). At least it can learn the sentences the users uses for doing actions in an applications. I suppose the application would have its own language logic for actions defined which does not include all possible sentences the user can use to interact with the application. The problem must be solve by the TVc. The TVc talks to user (ask questions - in any way i.e. text, windows, etc. and responds to the user) and tries to understand him. And TVc learns how user communicate. Thats why it needs the vocabulary with synonyms (at least) and sentence logic with syntax. I suppose it also to have some AI (Artificial Intelligence) in today state.

I know this is a big task but very interesting to work on. But to start somewhere the first version of TVc can be exactly same as Interactive Fiction (text adventure) games' text control (with an option of using radio/check buttons, roll down menus, toolbars, windows and vice versa as control).

There is a lot of things to think about. When you talk about making some real direction of work of our group I want to let you know about further possible goals we could target at before starting to think of a beginning of some final nearby tasks. I imagine that all active guys in our group are ready for some action :) - (in some level of the feeling "OK lets do something real").
Jan 27 2012
Firefox Arctic Faenza Individual Icons/-sets
1 comment
Score 56%
56 Likes
44 Dislikes
Mar 29 2012
This is COOL icon. I just like it a lot :)

Voted up (plus) Mar 29 2012
Quadrants Wallpaper Other
39 comments
Score 42%
42 Likes
58 Dislikes
Oct 14 2001
Watch page 3 of this group for last comment in this group - it's fresh.

This comment is displayed on a new page so latest previous comments can be forgotten. To the visually distinguishing latest comments I also suggest to distinguish "Fresh" pages for latest comments ether by colouring a page number with a "fresh" colour or by adding a "Fresh" icon close to a page number:

goto page: < prev 1 2 3 *Fresh 4 *Fresh


There can also be the possibility to click the "Fresh" icon which is the link redirecting a viewer to the first fresh comment in the page.
Feb 26 2012
Sometimes there are no comments for a longer time in a group. But when after that there is a new comment, one must scroll the comment page down and look for new comments. This also applies to look for often commented groups. Moreover when adding comment in the middle of a comment page, most people would not read it because they don't find it.

So I suggest to implement a visual notification of new comments for example as following:


Add a "Fresh" icon after a number of Comments in group header:

Description: "Group descreption"

Homepage: homepage

Members: 28

Comments: 28 "Fresh" icon here


and


Visually distinguish new comment's whole text box (not add only a "fresh" icon) with a color (background or frame) for a time when comment is fresh.



Moreover we can have a "fresh" icon close to number of members, if a new member is added to group (time period - 14 days or 30 days):

Description: "Group descreption"

Homepage: homepage

Members: 28 "Fresh" icon here

Comments: 28
Feb 26 2012
This website have no option to start a poll. I was looking for this possibility when I wanted to start a poll on interesting things. Unfortunately I didn't find out how to start any kind of poll. So I managed to start it like a New artwork and then the poll was about voting for art up or down - as seen on these examples:

http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=140042
http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=140078
http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=148656

but these polls are not good implementations. So I suggest, because polls can be very interesting, to implement poll feature on *-look.org and OpenDesktop.org.
Feb 26 2012
DarkCold - 3xMetacity 1.1 Metacity Themes
2 comments
Score 60%
60 Likes
40 Dislikes
Feb 11 2012
Great Theme. Voted PLUS, Plus, plus - Oh no, it's allowed only to vote once. ;) Feb 06 2012
Lcars-Fonts

Fonts

Score 51%
51 Likes
49 Dislikes
Feb 21 2018