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timbrown527

Tim Brown
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BibleTime

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Apr 26 2007
Well, then I guess there is nothing more I can do for you as far as explanations. You wanted me to deal with the "contradictions" but then said I had to do it without interpreting it, etc.

From what I have read from you, I doubt you will accept this but the Bible is its own best interpreter. I know, "LOL". But let's take your quote of James as an example. You said that James teaches salvation by works. The problem is that IN CONTEXT, you find it doesn't.

Later, James says clearly "Show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith BY my works". In other words, James tells us what he meant by "faith without works is dead". It is not "Faith Plus Works". It is "Faith That Works". That is a big difference.

If I "believe" a plane can get me from New York to California, how can you know I "believe" that until I actually board the plane? I have to "believe" to the point of action. That is saving faith. Anything short is just intellectual belief, which is precisely what James is addressing.

True faith works itself out in practical ways. "If a man looks into a mirror and sees himself and does nothing, he decieves himself". If I know I must TRUST Christ as savior by looking into the mirror of God's Ten Commandments and seeing I fall short, then walk away without trusting him, I am a fool.

Now, if you wish, you can reject this. But James interprets himself. You can't just take a verse and ignore the surrounding ones any more than you can in a letter.

"My wife just left me."

Oh?

Then you read the context. Maybe a few sentences down you read "...I'm so happy she'll be back soon. She went to the store to get butter." Casts new light on the situation.

Yet you have said I can't "interpret" or use "context" if I recall correctly. So, you want me to explain things without the right to explain them? How would that impact my previous example?

Words have meaning. If they don't, then how is it we understand each other in this particular thread? THe OT was written in Hebrew and the NT in Greek. We KNOW what the words in the original languages mean. Sometimes the issue lies in the meaning of a word in the original languages. I have many tools for that purpose and they are commonly available.

I think it all comes down to this; Do You Want There To Be Absolute Truth? From what I have read from you here, I think the answer is no. And if that is the case, I still ask why you are involved in this particualar forum? Why did you even mess with this "Bibletime" thread?

You say "If I go to hell, so be it, I won't be alone." Well the truth is, while others will be there, you WILL be alone. You will be separated from a loving God for all eternity. There will be no passage of time because there will be no "time". Those you love and care for won't be with you; you will be isolated. Alone. No tenderness, noone caring for you or about you. And you will vainly desire that no one else be there. It is a place of stark aloneness where all your unleashed cravings go unmet.

Think of all your loved ones, boarding a train. You LOVE these people. But you aren't sure about getting on that train. But you think "I have time, I'll think about it". Then suddenly the train pulls away. You know it won't return. And you are standing there. You are heartsick. You won't see them again because you didn't act on what you knew. "If only".

Hell is a place of "Weeping and Gnashing of teeth." Why? because "If Only...".

The bottom line is this. We have all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of GOd. DO you think you are a good person? By what standard? Stolen anything (I don't care how small it is)? That makes you a thief as it would me. Ever been angry at someone? That makes you a murderer in God's sight because anger is the seed of murder, and demonstrates a corrupt heart. Ever looked a married woman with lust? We all have, haven't we? That makes you an adulterer at heart.

So, you (and I) are guilty of all these things. You will stand before a holy Judge. What are you going to do? Ask for forgiveness? Try that in a court of law. It won't work. Someone has to pay for the crime, or the judge is unjust. In this case, Jesus is the Judge and he came around to your side of the bench and paid your penalty for you, then went back to his side of the bench. He paid for your sin against God.

I have given you the CORE TRUTH of the Christian faith. It is by Faith alone, by Grace alone. It's not about being a member of a church, being "religious", having oddball experiences or emotions or anything like that. It's about turning from your current life of unbelief and turning to Christ, trusting Him and His work on the cross alone as your only hope for salvation.

So will you appropriate what He has provided? In the end it is all that matters. - Dec 28 2005
OK Tim Brown U wanted contradictions,

Here are a few:

****************************
By reading your response to me, I really doubt you are really looking for answers, but I'll supply them. at least for the benefit of others that come along. I will not dignify the rest of the text with a response. It's just inflammatory.

Past that, I'm not sure the following means much. You don't want "interpretations". Therefore you are ruling out finding the intent of a given passage...
****************************


"Should we kill?
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)"

**************
The hebrew word for “murder” in the commandment actually is a reference to an act of killing another out of anger and revenge. The word in ch. 32 is not. But rather a term referring to execution -- in this case for unbelief. That is not a contradiction.
*************


"Ex 20:5 "...for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..." (see also Ex 34:14, Deut 4:24, Josh 24:19, and Nah 1:2)
Gal 5:19-20 "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are...jealousy..." (See also 2 Cor 12:20)"

**************
Again, no contradiction. Man's jealousy is for something that does not belong to himself but another. God's jealousy isn't "impure" because He has a right to our worship...as He made us. We don't have a right to what others have (and we don't own). Also, God's "jealousy" is one of love and is for our betterment, Human jealousy is sinful because it seeks to satisfy self.
********************


"Should we tell lies?
Ex. 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.(Prov. 12:22; Rev. 21:8)
1 Kings 22:23 The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. (II Thess. 2:11; Josh. 2:4-6 with James 2:25)"
***********************

Again, no contradiction.

Ex. has to do with false witness, what we commonly call "lying". THe point of First Kings is basically "Ok, you wan't lies, I'll give you prophets that tell lies." It's a judgement. God uses false prophets to execute his judgement. "The Lord has spoken evil..." refers again to the judgement of God...it has no reference to lying.
***************************



"Should we steal?
Ex. 20:15 Thou shalt not steal. (Lev. 19:13)
Ex. 3:22. And ye shall spoil the Egyptians. (Ex. 12:35-36; Luke 19:29-33)"

************
When God takes back what is His, it isn't stealing, is it? He created it, as He did you and me. It is his to give and take.
*****************


"Shall we keep the Sabbath?
Ex. 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. (Ex. 31:15; Num. 15:32,36)
Is. 1:13 The new moons and the Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity. (John 5:16; Matt. 12:1-5)"


*************
The pharisees hassled CHrist because he didn't observe the sabbath as their traditions and man made laws prescribed. He did it as He intended it from the beginning when He gave the Commandments. It's an issue of the heart, not ceremonialism.
************



Shall we make Graven images?
Ex. 20:4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven...earth...water. (Lev. 26:1)
EX. 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them.

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Again, no contradiction. The pagan practice (Their neighbors did this) was to create images of false Gods. God wanted them to be different. However,what God is prescribing here is an accurate representation of the True God. He was giving them instructions on how to build the Ark and the Mercy Seat where His presence would abide. What he is condemning in the commandments is Idolatry. In Ex 25, He is prescribing Worship, which He deserves.
*************


"Are we "saved" through works?
Eph. 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith...not of works. (Rom. 3:20, 28; Gal. 2:16)
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.(Matt. 19:16-21)"

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James is speaking of "Dead Faith"...which is intellectual assent alone. Even the demons believe in God...intellectually they are fully aware of God and their doom. Yes, they "believe"...but in terror. James is a book that contrasts true saving faith (that produces works) from non-saving faith (intellectual assent alone). True faith leads to obedience to God. In Matthew 7:21, there will be many who "believe" but didn't know Christ personally in this life, even though they demonstrated miraculous signs.

There is no contradiction. Ephesians talks about HOW we are saved (through faith). James talks about the kind of faith that SAVES.
***************


"Should good works be seen?
Matt. 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works. (I Peter 2:12)
Matt. 6:1-4 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them...that thine alms may be in secret. (Matt. 23:5)"

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The key phrase is "TO BE SEEN OF THEM". Motive. It isn't saying "keep it private". It is better to do something in secret than to do it publically if you are seeking your own glory. But that doesn't mean it is wrong to pray publically or give publically or do good works publically. The issue is the intent of the heart. If it is for one's own glory and not God's, then don't do it. This is in contrast to the pharisees, who did EVERYTHING publically to glorify themselves. That is the context...he just got done talking about them. Read the context. Again, no contradiction.
*******************


"Should we own slaves?
Lev. 25:45-46 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy...and they shall be your possession...they shall be your bondmen forever. (Gen. 9:25; Ex. 21:2,7; Joel 3:8; Luke 12:47; Col. 3:22)
Is. 58:6 Undo the heavy burdens...break every yoke. (Matt. 23:10)"

*************
First of all, it was a humane alternative to killing those that God wanted removed from the land of Israel.

Secondly, read the text before and you will find that "slavery" as discussed in the O.T. is not what we think of (as it was in the U.S.). God put into effect all kinds of laws to guard the well-being of those who were slaves. Those who were under what could be called "work contracts" were released.

I have no idea what you put Matt 23:10 in there for, it reads (NIV) "Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ"

************


"Does God change his mind?
Mal. 3:6. For I am the Lord; I change not. Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent. (Ezek. 24:14; James 1:17)
Ex. 32:14. And the Lord repented of the evil which he had thought to do unto his people. (Gen. 6:6; Jonah 3:10; Sam. 2:30-31; II Kings 20:1-6; Num. 16:20-35)"

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The character of God is constant. That is comforting to those who trust Christ. The context is one of comparing His character, which is supreme, to that of man's which is fallen. God doesn't lie. Man does. In Exodus 32, Moses had asked God to relent in spite of God's spoken intent to judge those who were rebelling. God honored Moses' faith. God had threatened judgement. There was no DECREE of judgement. (See Jer 4:28, Ezek. 24:14, Zech. 8:14,15). There comes a point where a threat from God becomes a decree. A person who chooses disbelief long enough will cross a line where return is impossible...in other words, God will ratify the decision and make it irreversable.

Here we have an "anthropomorphism". What God did is described as it appears from the human point of view.
**************


"Are we punished for our parent's sins?
Ex. 20:5 For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generations. (Ex. 34:7)
Ezek. 18:20 The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father. "

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In other words, the effects of sin are felt through many generations. We see this going on now; If someone is an alcoholic father, it tends to be an issue for a number of generations down the line. This is not a reference to punishment, but the effects of sin cascading through a number of generations.

The second verse DOES speak of judgement which is borne by the unredeemed individual.
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"Is God good or evil?
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)"

****************
I have NO idea where you are getting the word "evil". Here's what the NIV states:
"I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things..."

likewise for the KJV and NASB.

What contradiction? By the way, you repeat this later in your post. You might want to reread the text or perhaps find out if the original Hebrew word means "evil".
****************



"Is God Peaceable?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)
Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36) "

***************
Jesus gave that promise to His followers. He gives those of us who trust in Him peace, even when we are in the midst of life's storms. I've experienced it many times, and it makes our faith grow deeper and stronger.

In Matthew, he is referring to the division it will cause to follow Him. The mere fact that we are having this conversation shows this to be true. The truth divides. Truth and falsehood cannot coexist in harmony. We cannot be agreed and the faith I have in Christ is costing my popularity with many who don't believe. See the line drawn betwen you and me?

Jesus gives me peace in the midst of the storm, but he also said that our faith may cost the temporal "peace" that exists between those who follow Christ and those who choose disbelief.

The peace he promised is personal and inner, the other is interpersonal...which can be seen from the context. It costs something to follow Christ...it may mean being rejected by your own family.
*******************


"Was Jesus trustworthy?
John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

***********
Here, Jesus was talking to the pharisees
who had brought up Jesus words recorded in 5:31. The OT law required that multiple witnesses to establish the truth of a matter. Here he has discussed himself as Messiah. He had multiple witnesses from those around Him who recognized Him for Who He was (and IS). All He is doing here is showing that the standard in Deut. 17:6 has been met.

No contradiction.
*********


"Shall we call people names?
Matt. 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
Matt. 23:17 (Jesus said) Ye fools and blind."

***********
No contradiction. Firstly, we (as humans)cannot justifiably call someone a fool...it is just verbal abuse from a sinful heart and sinful motives. We don't know all the facts. However, God knows all the facts. He can JUSTLY call someone as they are. He Is The Judge!

Secondly, the point Jesus is making throughout this passage is how impossibly high God's standards are. We can't be saved by keeping the law. The purpose of the Law is to show us that we don't meet God's holy standard...so we will be driven to Him for mercy and salvation based on the sacrifice of Christ which is the payment for our sin.
*******************


"Has anyone seen God?
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at anytime. (Ex 33:20; Tim. 6:16; John 6:46; I John 4:12)
Gen. 32:30 For I have seen god face to face. (Ex. 33:11, 23; Is. 6:1; Job 42:5)"

***********************
No man has seen God (the Father) at any time, because He is Spirit. You can't see a spirit...we don't have the capacity for that. He didn't literally see God's "face"...in a physical sense. The term "face" refers to some manifestation of God's nature, which Moses referred to as God's "Glory". This is what he asked to see in verse 18.

The Bible uses anthropomorphisms to express things of God in human terms. In the Psalms, it says that we are under His "wings"...but God is not a bird. That is what is happening here.
*********************

"How many gods are there?
Deut. 6:4 The Lord or God is one Lord.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image.(Gen. 3:22; I John 5:7)"

******************
One in unity, not number. The same term is used to describe how a man and wife become "one". It is a statement of Monotheism while not contradicting the truth of the Triune nature of God.
*********************


"Are we all sinners?
Rom. 3:23 For all have sinned. (Rom. 3:10; Psa.14;3)
Job 1:1 There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright. (Gen. 7:1; Luke 1:5-6)"

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Yes, we are all sinners. Yet by placing our trust in God, we are declared "righteous" ultimately based on the sacrifice of Christ. While Job had not "trusted Christ", he was submissive to God and it was reflected in his character. If you read through the book of Job, you'll see it exhibited. Am I a sinner? YES!!! Do I mess up? YES!!! But when God looks at Tim Brown, He sees someone who has trusted in Him for Grace and Mercy. He has declared me judicially as "righteous". I'm "upright" insofar as I have placed my trust in Christ...and there are natural outworkings.
******************

When was Jesus crucified?
Mark 15:22 and it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
John 19:14-15 And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out...crucify him!"

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Mark 15:22 reads: " And they brought Him to the place Golgotha, which is translated, Place of a Skull." Again, in the NIV, NASB and KJV. I don't know what version you are using!
***************

"Just because these can be "explained" doesn't mean that they don't exist."

*********
So, it appears that you *want* there to be contradictions. If not, explanations should eliminate them for you. There are those who doubt but lean toward belief. Others doubt and lean toward unbelief. To those who don't want to believe, no answer will be sufficient.

So, what are you here for? If you want to reject God, that is your choice. But you will reap the fruit of your choice.

Apologetics do not win a human heart. Especially one that is not seeking. Apparently, to your loss, you are not. At least not at this time. I have endeavored to be polite to you. I hope I have succeded in at least some measure.

You have spent many hours looking at the Bible. But it appears that you have been doing so merely to find reason to disregard it. Aldus Huxley "didn't want there to be a God" so he could live his life as he pleased. Well, he succeeded. But he didn't erase the consequences by not believing. Just as there are laws such as the law of gravity there is the law of sin and death..."The soul that sins shall die." To sin means to fall short of God's standard. God gave us his impossibly high standard to show us that we can't meet his requirement on our own. So the law drives us to CHrist, Who bore YOUR sin and MINE. He paid for your sin when he died on that cross 2000 years ago.

Jesus Christ was either a liar, a lunatic or He is Lord. You can't say he's a "good moral teacher" or a "good prophet".

I say He Lord. The Christ, the Son of the living God. He has proven Himself in my life time and again.

He has been used in the name of "Christianity" to do many horrible things. But that is in spite of Who He is and what He teaches, not because of it.

So, what will YOU do with HIM? - Dec 27 2005
"Oh come on, stop with the religious spin, its all very transparent, and insults my intelligence."

I noticed you didn't answer my questions about evolution. You have no answers?

One day sir you WILL stand before a holy God. Contrary to what many percieve Him as, He is not just "Loving" he is also JUST. But you know, even though he is a just Judge, He demonstrated His love for us by offering His Son to pay the penalty for our sin. He demands payment for sin, just as any good judge would demand payment for crime. We all sin and fall short of God's Standard. The question is what will you do with the One Who made payment for your sin?

You have CHOSEN to come into this thread KNOWING it was about the Bible, or God, or something. My prayer for you is that perhaps deep inside, you are seeking some answers. I also pray you find them and not harden your heart.

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"The source of your faith is the Bible,"

No, the source of my faith is the Lord Jesus Christ. And saving faith comes from the Lord Jesus Christ.


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"it is flawed on so many levels,"

Prove it. Be VERY specific. What is wrong with either the Old or New testaments?


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"it has be selectively edited more times than any other piece of literature on the planet,"

I could say "prove it" but then the Dead sea scrolls show that what we have is still accurate.

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"mainly by the Church to highlight the power chapters and conceal the contradictions and flaws."

Again, I'm not involved with the Roman Catholic church. Again, what flaws????

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"According to the Bible the earth is only a few thousand years old..... there were no dinosaurs, there was no evolution, we all started from a very small gene pool Adam and Eve.... its laughable !"

Actually, 6,000 to 10,000.

No dinosaurs? Hardly. We find Biblical references to beasts that we would recognize as a dinosaur. Man coexisted with them.

About Adam and Eve... It's "OK" to say that life comes from non-life (You might want to check out the "Law of Biogenesis") But somehow you have a problem with Life (God) creating life? Oh and if evolution occurred, where did the extra information come from for the new Macroevolutionary organism? Please don't appeal to mutations. Mutations cause a net loss in information, not an addition of information, so please don't go there...


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"It is a work of fiction with no proof at all! the only ancient text we have that is likely to be untainted is the dead sea scrolls and they contradict the bible, I have read that translations of said scrolls refer to Jesus as a kind of Jim Morrison of his time , no mention of the incredible miracles the bible speaks of...."


ROTFL! How Ironic! You apparently don't know that the Dead Sea Scrolls were the nail in the coffin of that argument a very long time ago! They sir, do NOT contradict the Scriptures, rather they AFFIRM them! The dead sea scrolls effectively killed the "The Bible is full of transmission errors" problem.

Today we have 24,000 or so manuscripts for our scriptures. You probably wouldn't question the accuracy of Homer's Illyad, but it only has roughly 600! What are you going to do with 24,000 manuscripts affirming the accuracy of what we have now? Ignore them? To your own eternal peril!

50 years ago or so before the scrolls were found, you may have had some traction with that argument. But not now.

---------------
"We all evolved from single cell organisms, this has been proved, and holds water, name one, just one thing the bible claims that can be proved."

Evolution has been *proven* to be true? That's news to me! Where are all the transitional forms? And of course there are all those nasty questions I asked you in my previous post which you didn't answer yet.

And of course, how did the cell evolve? It couldn't function without all its parts! Just HOW did it evolve? Can You Tell Me? If there is PROOF you surely can point to it! And I don't mean "We think" or "We Surmise"...That ain't science. Hypothesis, theory, testing, observation. Without that, you haven't got science, just guesswork. When was life created from non-life in a lab...and if it couldn't be done on purpose, how does it make sense to say it happened by chance (as if chance does anything...as if it is a force of some kind).

Ok, Now, I'll answer your question. The Bible speaks of the Hydrologic cycle. It speaks of a free floating earth in space. It speaks of "the House of David, whom many mocked as a fable...until Geologists dug up artifacts referencing "the house of David". And of course we have SECULAR sources that tell us Christ lived. The "Jesus Seminar" was made up of some of the most heretical, liberal "scholars" who came up with all sorts of nonsense about Jesus...but they never questioned that he lived. So the question isn't "Did Jesus Live" but rather "What will you do with Him"?

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"There is no Egyptian historical records of the outlandish story of the Israelites flight of Egypt, the plagues, the sea parting..Etc..Etc"

This is called an "argument from silence". "Since I don't see the information, it didn't happen". This is a logical fallacy. I haven't researched archaeological finds from that area, but if it hasn't shown up yet, it probably will. It's happened over and over again. Just like so many other arguments about the bible...those nasty archaeologists keep digging up stuff that verifies it.


--------------
"Did all life on the planet have to start again from the meager gene pool saved by Noah? I think not!"

And of course I ask "Did all life on the planet come from the meager gene pool in some pre-biotic slime? That, of course, is a guess, not science. I have a Bible that has been shown to be historically reliable. Science? No. But an historical record. And again, science has not created life from non-life, nor demonstrated that it happened.

I love it when people resort to "It didn't have to..." whatever. It's a weak effort to avoid the issue. My house didn't HAVE TO be built from brick and wood, but it WAS...


------------------
And even if I was a religious person who are the Christians to suggest that there god is the only god and try to convert all others? take your bible out of my throat!

Jesus Christ said "I am THE way, The Truth and THE life. No one gets to the Father but by me." John 16:4. Jesus accepted worship as God. He Himself claimed exclusivity. Truth by nature IS exclusive.

As far as "taking the Bible out of your throat", you weren't forced into this thread...were you??? What is happening is the basic "You have no right to shove your values on me"? Well, isn't that what you are doing? You say "Who are the Christians to..." you are turning around and doing the same thing.

But again, there is no force here. You saw the thumbnail for this entry at KDE-LOOK and you chose to enter the thread. Who's fault is that?


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"Keep your religion to yourself, but if your going to live by the bible and worship it, I suggest you read all of it, it is estimated that the King James Bible has only a fraction of the writings.... most have been "filed" by the Church over the century's to serve there own ends."

You certainly don't keep your "religion" (darwinism) to yourself. And it is a faith system...which makes it a form of religion.

I don't worship the Bible. I worship the God of the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ, who died to pay the penalty for my sin and was risen from the dead to show that his sacrifice for me was acceptable to God the Father.

The other writings you refer to were rejected because they were shown to be errant. The Old and New Testaments have repeatedly been shown to be reliable documents. Again, you either don't understand or are choosing to misrepresent the facts.

----------------------
*Its a story, that's all, and like most story's the more people that edit it the bigger the story gets, and some more adage, history is written by the victorious.*

Then I take it you haven't heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? They have been dated back by hundreds of centuries B.C. And it demonstrated that what we have now is still accurate. And Yes, there are alot of stories in the Bible. And one after another, stories that are scorned as "untrue" are proven historically accurate by archaeology. Try again.

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*I know that science can explain a hell of allot more of the universe than the bible can, pardon the pun!
Science will be the one to solve poverty, starvation and sickness not religion, religion just thrives on it.*

That's what modernism claimed; but we still have poverty; and it isn't getting better. Wrong again. You are behind the times.

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"If there is a all powerful omnipresent being that is responsible for creating the universe and stands in judgment of the way we lived our very short lives,"

Yes, there is.

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I would think he/she/it is intelligent enough to judge us on our humanity..."

That is PRECISELY what you don't want...in our humanity, we have all "sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God". You don't want to be judged by your "goodness". It falls short of God's standard. That's why Christ (who is Perfect) came and paid a penalty He didn't owe...to eliminate our debt of sin if only we will turn from our sin and trust in Him alone.

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"...and not our adherence to a contradictory story book..."

Contraditions? Name ONE. You will NOT surprise me..

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"...that seems to prevent all mankind from growing and EVOLVING into more enlightened intelligent beings."

To the contrary, Paul in Romans 12 says to the believers to "...be transformed by the renewing of our minds..." To be conformed bit by bit into what God has for us. Growth? YES. Evolving? In a sense, that is kind of the idea. God is at work, changing me slowly over time to conform to what He wants me to be! You come to Christ to be washed of your sin, and then the process of growth and maturation begins.

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*Christianity is just one of thousands of religions, although they seem to be in the top ten religions wanting to change this fact.*
---------
False again. True, there are many religions in the world. But Chrisitianity is unique from all of them. It offers a Savior.


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"My suspicion is that our gene pool has be meddled with by our extraterrestrial Grey friends for thousands of years,"

E.T.s? Where are they? Have you made contact? You won't allow for God, but you just move the problems to E.Ts that never seem to show up? Lots of Hubble pics, no saucers that I have seen.

Again, you are guessing!

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"this would explain the missing link between Cro Magnon man "modern humans & tools makers" and Neanderthal man, tis very strange how Cro Magnon man just appeared in a small part of France "don't quote me" 40 thousand years ago, no fossil records before that...as yet"

Let's see...Cro Magnon man...the physique and brain capacity were at least equal to modern man, so what is the difference?

Neanderthal Man? I think it was at the international Congress of Zoology in I think the late 50's where it was showed that Neanderthal man was just an old man who suffered from arthritis. So you want to make links between two humans?

Of course, then there was "Nebraska man" which was created by an artist based on a pig's tooth. Then there was Piltdown man who was built from a jawbone from a modern ape.

--------------------
"Anyway the big issue is that if there are Aliens , the main reason in hiding this from the general public would be to prevent mass religious panic/riots and chaos, since little gray men don't quite fit in the Bible....along with science, evolution, dinosaurs, quantum physics..etc..etc

I supose it takes all kinds to make a world....."

Yes, yes, of course. Well at least you are holding back on the "aliens messed with our genes" argument.

---------------------
"Lets take any further options of this kind off line, this is a KDE website remember, although the amusement value is probably very high its not the correct podium for this line of debate."

Then I assume that in the future you will allow those who believe differently to post things here without starting one.

It's your choice. - Dec 23 2005
Welcome to the family, brother! - Dec 05 2005
I've been using this off and on since I moved to Linux. I like the new features and expect to be using it more consistently in the future! - Dec 05 2005
*...a work of fiction...*

If you take the time to look at what the Bible teaches about history and how archaeolgy has validated it, including the life of Christ, you might find yourself rethinking this...

*According to that logic, I could propose the hitchikers guide to the galaxy as a scientific text with the same level of validity. The reason I don't is that THHG makes is not a scientific theory, it is static text, it cannot be changed to better describe nature based on physical evidence. If want an understanding of why this package does not belong here, you could start by reassesing your definitions of 'science' and 'theory'. Theory is not a derogatory term, evolution is a theory but so is gravitation, this does not make jumping off of a tall building any less fatal. Science is open to evidence based change and has to make testable predictions. The Bible is a RELIGIOUS text, and nothing (including ignorance) will ever change that.*

Gravitation is a fact and a law, not a theory.

The bible also agrees with the laws of thermodynamics, alludes to the Earth free floating in space, hydrology, as well as geologic isostacy. It also teaches that things reproduce "...after their own kind", which is what we see going on...(microevolution or mere variation within kinds). Oh, yes, the Old Testament also speaks of the "bound" and "unbound" nature of Orion and the Plaeides. But then "...that can't be true because people didn't know these things then..."; unless of course, the Bible is a book breathed by God, who made all these things.

I think it was the apostle Paul who wrote that God made "...things that are visible from things that are not visible." That is a true statement. Well, those things...such as atoms...are now visible.

You mention "testable predictions". If I were to tell you that I was going to spend One Million bucks on a lottery that only gave me 10 to the 70th power of a chance to win, you'd rightly say I was a fool...and if I won, you would probably think it was rigged...especially if I told you ahead of time I would win.

Someone has calculated that this is like covering Texas three feet deep in silver dollars, marking one, and parachuting someone to earth to pick that marked coin up on the first try.

Well, I've just given you the odds of Jesus Christ fulfilling just TEN of the prophecies about Him (that we know were written before the fact...including those that He would have no control over such as where He was born, people gambling over His clothing while He was on the Cross, etc.) Ten to the 70th power. The Bible said it would happen, and it did. The manuscripts were found and dated. We know they predate the events. And I'm only talking about the ones related to Christ, not also the ones related to the fall of Tyre, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. It all happened. Look through history; people go around denying that you can trust the Bible about some historic event then *wham*, some archaeologist digs up something that shows it happened as the Bible teaches.

The Bible isn't just a "religious text". It also gives us history and when it speaks of things in the scientific realm, it has been shown to be accurate. - Dec 05 2005
*do you Really believe in heaven and hell ?*

Yes. Sure do. Primarily because of the testimony of God's Word, the Bible. But also because of the testimony of those who deal with death and have witnessed the death of those who are believers and those who are not. But primarily because of the Scriptures, not the witnessed experiences of others.

*Remember God created evil*

False. God created both man and the angelic hosts with the ability to choose obedience or disobedience. Both groups chose the latter.

*Oh, nearly forgot christians are new testement only right.....*

Again, false. Biblical Christianity accepts both old and new Testaments.

*My mention of the Catholic church was used to highlight my view that 99% of all religions are used to manipulate people and power. Don't start me on the Muslims..... but I don't think they have forgotten the genocide we heaped on them during the Crusades......*

Yup. There's alot of that going on. But that doesn't invalidate Christianity. The Crusades involved alot of things that were contrary to what Christianity is about and that the Bible teaches. On the other hand, Darwinism and evolutionary thought has been taken to it's philosophical logical conclusion and we have the Nazi Holocaust, euthenasia and abortion. After all, we are just protoplasm waiting to become manure...or so they claim.

*One wonders though: What were the physical precursors of the protein pathways in retinal cells and by what mechanism did they evolve? All the better to see you with said the big bad wolf, my guess is food, you need to see it or catch it, means of survival... Darwinism.*

...but then how would an animal or organism survive to evolve if it didn't first have sight? You are implying that it needs eyes to see. Then how did it live without sight and therefore food?

But at least you were honest enough to use the word "guess", which along with the words "suppose" and "surmise" are used in "scientific" circles. One wonders where observation, testing, verification and replication are in this "science". I didn't know "guess", "Surmise", "suppose", etc., were scientific terms.

Just a few other questions you could ask of evolution:

1. How did blood clotting evolve?
2. How did a given organism survive, if wounded, until clotting evolved.
3. Why didn't the species die off then?
4. What came first, the need for clotting? If not, why did it become part of the organism?
5. what came first, the digestive system or the need to eat?
6. Assuming digestion came first, how did things stay alive until the desire to eat evolved?
7. Assuming the desire to eat came first, how did things get digested so the organism or animal could *survive*.
8. When the first organism came out of the water and set foot on land, with what did it procreate to give rise to more of its kind? In other words, Mr. fish had to have a mate! So, a female fish *just happened to evolve at the same time and be in the right place?*

And if you "know" the answers to any of the previous, how do you "know" them? - Dec 04 2005
*I can't take this seriously, Come wise up, religion is a means to control people by using there fear of the dark and the threat of eternal pain against them.*

No doubt alot of people do this; but that does not invalidate the Biblical Christian faith; People abuse others but that doesn't make the claims of Christianity false.

*You can be a decent, caring, honest human being without religion, just set an example and be true to yourself and others!*

Sure you can. But that won't make you "right" before a holy God. The problem is the heart. "Man's righteousness does not achieve the righteousness of God."

*Emperor Constantine embraced the Christian faith and launched a whole new roman empire.... the Catholic Church...who have committed bigger acts of genocide than Attila the Hun, Genghis khan,Hitler and Pol Pot put together!*

While I won't argue numbers I will say this: What was done in the name of Christianity was *contrary* to the faith, not in line with it. On the other hand, Nazism (and hitler embraced evolution and Darwinism) just took it to it's logical conclusion...and hence the holocaust. And of course we now have euthenasia, abortion and on and on...

*IMHO Religion is no more than Dark age Politics, and has got NOTHING to do with Science, not even Science fiction for that matter. Still can take this seriously! its a joke right... come on Fess up !*

You certainly have a right to your opinion and ,again, alot of people certainly use religion and Christianity for their own ends. But history and archaeology will disagree with you regarding the claims of Biblical Christianity. Either Jesus Christ lived or He did not. There is no historical reason to doubt He lived...and died. Historians tell us that the disciples died as martyrs for a resurrected Christ. Just before the resurrection they were hiding in fear.

Don't think it could happen? One question I have for those who doubt the existence of God is "Do you have the sum total of all knowlege?" and "If you have a whopping 1% of all total knowlege of everything that leaves 99% of the pie. How do you know the evidence you are looking for isn't there?

When I was a very small child, I had the strange idea that our community just floated out in space and that's all there was. I've since learned that I was wrong. There was more that I hadn't yet discovered.

Not all answers reside in science (although I would argue that Darwinism is a philosophy/religion and not a science). You need to consider what history and archaeology have to say.

If I see a building, I know there was a builder. That is a faith statement. This web site exists. "I've never seen the KDE-LOOK webmaster, so he doesn't exist." Silly thought, isn't it?



- Dec 04 2005
Celtic - preview

Cursors 16 comments

by croky
Score 50.0%
Jun 03 2005
Thanks! I like it! - Nov 20 2005
Angelic Sounds

System Sounds 17 comments

Score 50.0%
May 12 2005
Thank you very much! - Nov 20 2005
GnomeFalls

Wallpapers Gnome 1 comment

Score 50.0%
Mar 12 2005
*My first wallpaper, not ideal but you got to start somewhere...*

Hey, I think it looks great!

Tim - Mar 13 2005
Ochre

Wallpaper Other 1 comment

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Nov 29 2004
Simple. NIce contrasts and colors.

Thanks! - Mar 11 2005
Union of Two (Gen 1:27, Mark 10)

Wallpaper Other 7 comments

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Feb 17 2004
Let me add the following link to

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=10175

Notice: JR Bell is in the description.


that should save you some trouble.

Tim - Feb 17 2004
Nope, because I didn't use his work as a basis for mine.

No unkindness meant to you, but next time, please ask first.

Sorry.

Tim - Feb 17 2004
Hi Dave:

The Gflare is there to imply a reference to the supernatural/spiritual union that occurs between man and woman.

Keep an eye open, I'll make one for you without that and maybe without the black background.

Thanks,

TIm - Feb 14 2004
The Lamp (Psalm 119:105)

Wallpaper Other 11 comments

Score 58.0%
Feb 12 2004
You're right! thanks for the nudge!

Tim - Feb 13 2004
Thanks for the name. I appreciate that!

Tim - Feb 12 2004
Jeremiah 27:5

Wallpaper Other 23 comments

Score 50.0%
Feb 03 2004
Thanks.

I have one goal, and one goal only. That is to express the scriptures through art. As I read, sometimes illustrations come to mind and I try to put that illustration into something that hopefully will be an encouragement to another Christian.

Paul said that whatever we do, we are to do with a view to glorifying God. After all, He made us, therefore he has ownership rights to our lives and what we do.

Blessings to you and thanks,

tim - Feb 04 2004
Rocket Gear

Wallpaper Other 1 comment

Score 50.0%
Feb 03 2004
I'll have to look into getting kpov.

Again, great work!

Tim - Feb 04 2004
His Eye Is On The Sparrow (Matthew 10)

Wallpaper Other 15 comments

Score 50.0%
Jan 23 2004
Wow! Great to hear that!

now, about what I use, as much as I'd like to try a tablet, I don't have the cash for one right now...so I'm pushing my mouse around.

Thanks brother!

Tim - Jan 24 2004
a mouse. thanks for the feedback!

Tim - Jan 24 2004
God So Loved

Wallpaper Other 34 comments

Score 50.0%
Jan 16 2004
Call me weak, but I just had to remind you that, once again, you seem totally unable to ignore the very stuff you don't like.

Previously, you said you couldn't ignore my work because it wasn't "labeled" right. Well, the thumnail name is "God So Loved".

So, what's your excuse now? Why'd ya click on this one??? I'd love to know.



Per the thread at http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=9775&xexpand=all
anyone can see it was like pulling teeth to get you to admit you are just another user like anyone else.

Again, this wasn't as "complicated" as you would seem to be making it...except that answering my questions would nail you down to being responsible for your own choices...

Tim - Jan 21 2004
Call me weak, but I just had to remind you that, once again, you seem totally unable to ignore the very stuff you don't like.

Previously, you said you couldn't ignore my work because it wasn't "labeled" right. Well, the thumnail name is "God So Loved".

So, what's your excuse now? Why'd ya click on this one??? I'd love to know.



Per the thread at http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=9775&xexpand=all
anyone can see it was like pulling teeth to get you to admit you are just another user like anyone else.

Again, this wasn't as "complicated" as you would seem to be making it...except that answering my questions would nail you down to being responsible for your own choices...

Tim - Jan 21 2004
****
I'll just answer all three of your posts here. I will not answer the 'you slippery bastard' accusations, however, since that would amount to nothing. If you call me 'slippery' because I won't give simple answers to complicated questions, then so be it. And no, I still will not give simple answers to complicated questions. I hope that settles that.
****

I know oxdead won't "hear" this...but for those who by off-chance come by and read this, the "complicated questions" I asked had to do with his authority on KDELOOK. I asked him simply if he's an admin for the site; he had been acting as if he were the "submission police".

Of course, the complicated part is because an honest answer will reveal he is just another user like you or me...and he'd have less "weight" to throw around.



Ok. OxDeadBeef. AGain, you have taken my statements and completely circumnavigated my points. Go back and reread what I said and what you responded. You misrepresented me more than once.

Basing the reliability of the scriptures on archaeology is not circular reasoning.

Also, your "oral history" argument doesn't make it...40 years certainly allows for eyewitnesses to be alive...besides, you are presuming that *nothing was written*.

...and Luke explains this. Please, go read the first four verses of Luke 1. He explains what he did in writing the Gospel so that we could be "more certain" of what happened...according to eyewitnesses.


So, if you want, keep rambling. Seems to me that you have simply decided to disbelieve no matter what...and that no matter where I go, there you are.

Well, ok. Hope you have fun.

TIm - Jan 20 2004
....and of course, Jesus centered His whole life around fulfilling prophecies just to convince people of who He was...just to fool people...

I suppose anyone in their right mind would really do this when they KNEW that involved being nailed to a cross?

Oh yeah...and quoting part of Psalm 22 from the cross? Sure was dedicated to deception!

Give it a rest.

Of course, I believe He DID do all these things...not to decieve...but rather to show Who He was to those who were looking...who had "eyes to see and ears to hear".


Ironic. You will allow someone to do all these things for no useful purpose...at their own ultimate loss...but you won't allow it to be an indicator that Jesus was Who He said He was!

-- Ohhhkay.

Tim - Jan 20 2004
*Not all Christians are non-educated rednecks from the hills in the bible belt.*

REALLLLLY???? You've got to be kidding me! ;)

Gee. I graduated summa cum laude in Computer Science. First in my class. Must've been a "learning disabled" college, huh?

Just gotta chuckle at how people think!

-- tim - Jan 20 2004
You know, I was looking for this author you mentioned...and the only person by that name I could find is an authority in computer science. Going to Christianbook.com, which is a major outlet for christian works, I could find no references by this person.

Now, while I certainly won't dismiss what he did or did not say merely because of his training in other areas...I would ask how, if what I have found is true, this fits with what you said later in this thread about my reference to Sir William Ramsay...to which you replied:

***
Appeals to authority are not a good method of 'proof' -- and in this case, Sir William Ramsay would be an 'irrelevant' authority, as his training was not in historical matters.
***

Again, I am a firm believer that training in a different area does not preclude a person being able to speak accurately about something else.

My point here is to ask you, again assuming that my findings are accurate (and if not, then I withdraw this statement), that you please be consistent.

Thanks,

TIm - Jan 20 2004
Oh...I would only add that Ramsay became a CHristian. He gave up on atheism, not science.

Your statement implies that atheism=science. which also implies that christianity is opposed to science. that is not true.

True science involves repeated testing and observation...the scientific method per Francis Bacon (who, by the way, was a follower of Jesus Christ).

I hope this clarifies things...if not for you, then maybe for others who read this.

Tim - Jan 20 2004
*come on. First of all, the probability that one given person fulfills those prophecies may be very little, but as there are a whole lot of persons, the chance that someone will fulfill them is a lot greater.*


****
1 in 10 followed by 19 zeroes. Pretty slim to start with. and that is only for 10 of the 300.
****

*Second of all, I dare you to name 300 prophecies Jesus allegedly fulfilled.*

*****
If you were even serious in your "dare", would it make one whit of difference with you? As can be seen from other threads, such as one regarding Alethia's wallpaper "Vine and branches", you get very slippery when your claims are cornered.
******


*Third of all, the bible is not a reliable source for historic information.*


*****
You are making a truth claim about the "innaccuracy" of scripture. Prove it.
*****

*As for the religious leaders trying to kill Jesus - assuming that the story is true - assassination was a common way to get rid of unpleasant competitors in those times. It may as well (even better, because this approach doesn't need miracles) be that Jesus was a preacher who got too much attention, thus endangering the political influence of the priests.*

****
Yup. THe pharisees sought to kill Jesus at least in part for that reason...he was touching their bubble! However, they did admit that they were angry with him because he claimed to be 'the Son of God'. No one at that time could make that claim...except Jesus.

What's your point?
*****

*And, as always, the only remotely contemporary source of this story is the bible, which casts a big shadow of doubt on the whole thing.*


****
And again, we see your prejudice. If it's in the Bible, it must not be reliable. Again, where is your proof? For hundreds of years now, archaeologists have used the bible to find things that people said were mythical. Yet, the scriptures led them to it!

You are ignoring the evidence that is in front of you, yet you have the nerve to ask for more...such as wanting me to list 300 prophecies.

And of course, you ignore the secular historical records of those who wrote of Christ...

And you want more evidence (to ignore?)!

Just how much evidence, or what kind, would *ever* be sufficient for you?
****

*Last and least, Sir Ramsay. Apart from an atheist converting to christianity proving near nothing (There are christians who abandoned their faith as well).*

*****
I said that there are many who have done the same. And they didn't become convinced overnight. Years as a matter of fact. These were not simpletons who just were looking for something to fill their empty heads.

As far as 'christians' abandoning their faith, the Scriptures are plain that that true converts do not do so. 1 John states that "They went from us because they were not of us." Jesus said "The one who endures to the end shall be saved." The indicative is used to say "The saved ones are the ones who endure to the end."

According to Jesus, not me, those who abandon their faith show that they were not for real to begin with.

*****


*Sir Ramsay gave up on science very easily.*

****
30 years of research is giving up 'very easily'?

Ramsay came to the conclusion that Luke was reliable after 30 years of research. Can you demonstrate that it is unreliable?
****

Finally, in the "vine and branches" paper, you said you were giving up on all this stuff. You never did ultimately answer my questions there...or do you reserve the right to have one-sided discussions?

-- tim - Jan 20 2004
Yeah, you take chances when you change your style. Just like anything, you can get in a rut after a while...then you experiment with a new idea and see if anyone hollers.

About the transparent text. I'll see what I can do. Yes, it's all done in the Gimp.

Thanks again,

TIm - Jan 18 2004
Thanks Alethia!

THe only thing I would add is that Ramsay didn't come to this conclusion quickly. He devoted 30 or so years to his research...and again, it wasn't looking for support for the faith...he was wanting to tear it down...and he was forced by what he found to come to the conclusion that Luke is accurate.

-- tim - Jan 17 2004
Actually, they would often do both -- nail and lash -- especially if the nails were driven through the palms.

Jesus Christ was nailed to the cross. Whether it was through his wrists with Him lashed to the patibulum, it doesn't alter what He accomplished...substitutionary death for sin.

Regarding the rest, all you've really done is go into some detail that I intentionally left out. My information is not incorrect, just not as complete as you have made it. But thanks for supplying it nonetheless.

Yes, it was an excruciating death. Yes, it was ultimately by asphyxiation. Extreme shock was also involved. The person had to push on the nails to raise his body so he could get a breath of air. It has been called the most cruel form of execution in history. From what I've read from physicians who have described what happened, I believe it.

Thanks,

Tim - Jan 17 2004
1. I'm not offering "proof". I'm offering evidence. Lives changed in spite of a determined, and often dogmatic, predjudice is valid evidence I would think.

It's not "It's good enough for "x" and it's what the cool people are doing", rather it's "Hey, it's changing people's lives...in spite of what they set out to do...something's up".


2. I am not "trained" formally in alot of things. That doesn't mean I can't speak with authority on many of those things. I've known some people who know more about a given field than some professionals...and those professionals aren't slouches.

The presence of a piece of paper or the lack of one is not an indicator of authority or the lack thereof. It just is an indicator that you have convinced someone you can learn...and I say that as someone who is 50 and has that piece of paper, so my statement is not one of jealousy due to a lack of education.

The issue is we have someone who set out to disprove CHristianity, not support it. He came out the other end of his journey as a believer. If you are really a Christian, is this a problem? This is how many skeptics come to faith, such as Josh McDowell and a host of others such as Frank Morison ("WHo Moved the Stone?") and Lee Strobel ("The Case for Christ" and "The Case for Faith"). People such as these are highly intelligent people who had a devout bias AGAINST Christianity and wanted to shoot it down. BUt again, their "journey" ended up vastly different than they had planned.

Now, let's consider another point. If I were to say "a christian says it's ok" then past experience tells me that this kind of evidence is "tainted" too, so either way, it's "throw the evidence out".

If it comes from a believer, it's biased. If it comes from an unbeliever, then something else must be wrong.

Would a Christian Historian be ok? And by "christian" I don't mean the "Jesus Seminar" types.

3. The rest of what you have to say merely looks at evidence with a certain amount of built-in doubt looking for more proof. If you see a pattern forming, at what point will you just say "I trust it"?

Even the apostles would reason with people and give a "reason for why they believe". Peter tells us to be ready to do so. That certainly includes what we call "apologetics".

4. You say you are a "christian". Of course, that term has been diluted to mean just about anything you care for it to mean. From reading your view of evidences regarding the reliability of the book of Luke, you sound more like a skeptic. A Christian is a person who has been regenerated by a supernatural work of God and takes God at His Word.

Thomas wanted continual proof. Jesus provided evidences to verify that He was the risen Lord. At that point Thomas realized who He was. Jesus said "....blessed are those who have NOT seen, yet believe." Yet he DID provide evidences.

We don't remove "reasons to believe" from time-space history/archaeology. That is the objective anchor for the faith. Literally, "If Jesus is not raised from the dead, your faith is in vain".

Paul, in 1 Cor 15 tells us that he is reporting "what was first reported to him...that Jesus died for our sin according to the scriptures...and that he rose from the dead according to the scriptures and that he appeared..." to many, including a crowd of 500 at one time as well as the apostles.

That, my friend, is a literal bodily resurrection rooted in literal time-space-history.

So, we see Paul referencing the resurrection as an historical event...just as I have many times.


Blessings to you in your endeavors,

Tim - Jan 17 2004
Hey, thanks. I appreciate it. Actually, I understand what you are saying about doing one without words. However, that would kind of nullify the message. As a Christian, everything I do will reflect what I believe.

If having the wording on them makes the ratings go down, so be it. The work is for the encouragement of fellow believers...and I tend to look at downloads more than anything else...that is the most accurate vote in my book (Many people download but don't vote, etc.)...

AGain, thanks. I remember a day a few months ago when your posts were not as positive...so it means alot to me. I'm headed in the right direction!

TIm - Jan 17 2004
Sorry. I made a typo in the above. It was as follows:

*Sir William Ramsay, for example, was an atheist who sought to prove that the Gospel of Luke (a book in the Bible's New testament).*

I closed the parentheses and ended the sentence without adding "is unreliable".

Thanks, I hope this clarifies my meaning.

Tim - Jan 17 2004
That is a very comprehensive question!

Jesus Christ was born circa 3 b.c. He was the fulfillment of the Old Testament biblical prophecies concerning a "Deliverer". During his life of 33 years, he fulfilled approximately 300 or more Old Testament prophecies concerning Himself...some of which he had no control over (such as where He was born, being offered vinegar on the cross, his betrayal by Judas, etc.)

The probability of Him fulfilling just 10 of these is on the order of 10 followed by 19 zeros.

The point is that the Old Testament predicted his coming, and He fulfilled it.

Jesus Christ claimed to be God come in human flesh...a claim which the religious leaders readily understood...and sought to kill Him for it.

Jesus predicted His death and resurrection; both events for which there were eyewitnesses.

What is all this about? Jesus Christ came as God in human flesh to die for the penalty of sin.

God created us to fellowship with Him. But, man rebelled. The result being a separation between man and God. Because God is Holy and Just, payment must be made to restore the relationship. Because of His love for those whom He created, He paid the penalty Himself.

The Old testament predicted the coming of Christ. History recorded it. We know He died and rose again. Secular historians have repeatedly tried and failed to discredit the Biblical record. Many have come to trust Christ as a result of their attempts. Ironic. Sir William Ramsay, for example, was an atheist who sought to prove that the Gospel of Luke (a book in the Bible's New testament). He not only came to the conclusion that Luke "...was an historian of the first order..." but also became a Christian. So, take it from a former atheist, Sir William Ramsay, read the Gospel of Luke. You can trust it and will learn alot about Jesus Christ.

Because He rose again, He proved He has power over death...and we know we can trust Him.

Someone said "Strong faith in a weak plank will get you wet...but weak faith in a strong plank will get you over the river."

Jesus Christ came to live the perfect life we can't; one that satisfies God. Still, he paid the penalty that we owed (and He did not).

I hope this helps...

Tim - Jan 17 2004
The historical record indicates, and archaeological finds have verified, that when crucifixions were done, the victim would be nailed to the cross through the wrists...at the joint where the base of the hand joins the arm.

If the nails were driven through the palms, the nails would tear through the flesh.

Crucifixion was a slow, excrutiating death. Death generally came by asphyxiation. To get each breath, the person would have to push against the nail through the feet just so inhalation was possible. This also means pulling with the arms. Each breath was pure torture.

This is what Jesus Christ submitted Himself to, to pay the penalty for your sin and mine.

Tim - Jan 16 2004
The Gift of God

Wallpaper Other 11 comments

Score 50.0%
Jan 15 2004
Thanks!

THe name of the font is

"Fortunaschwein"

It is a truetype font.

I hope this helps!

TIm - Jan 16 2004
Precisely!

Yeah, I thought of adding a glow to the text. Now that you mention it, I'll see what I can do!

Thanks,

Tim - Jan 15 2004
Thanks. I kind of like this one too! :) - Jan 15 2004
Embrace the Son

Wallpaper Other 28 comments

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Jan 01 2004
Thanks Lucy!

Tim - Jan 16 2004
Light (**warning Christian content)

Wallpaper Other 11 comments

Score 50.0%
Jan 10 2004
No, I don't think so! The verse has one literal meaning; that God spoke light into existance by divine fiat (command) on creation day 1. - Jan 12 2004
Keep it up!

tim - Jan 12 2004
Psalm 150:3

Wallpaper Other 19 comments

Score 50.0%
Jan 06 2004
Here you go; since you are so concerned I'll let you research it...even if I know she doesn't care...

Amy Grant
c/o Blanton Harrell Cooke & Corzine
5300 Virginia Way, Suite 100
Brentwood, TN 37027 - Jan 08 2004
Yeah, I saw it. Thanks!

Tim - Jan 07 2004
*"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler*

Don't worry, your day is coming. The world is coming together -- sooner rather than later -- as one political system, one economy and with one religion and one ruler. The Bible will be out, paganism will be in. The Bible predicts it, and the times are coming to fruition like a fig tree. And I personally guarantee you it will come to pass.

Ironic; because these things that should cause us believers distress are really a source of inner joy because we know that this means that the time of our Lord's return is near.

Also ironic because even though it gives us joy, it should give you sorrow. After the world becomes united under one leader, seven years afterword will be the return of Jesus Christ to the Mount of Olives, just as foretold in the scriptures. And He will judge the world.

It's not how you start. It's how you finish. And without Christ, you lose forever.

Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Tim - Jan 07 2004
Hi Chris:

You may have heard Amy Grant's "Thy Word"?

Except for the measure Tux is sitting/standing on, it's "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

Key of Eb, treble cleff.

-- tim - Jan 07 2004
Thanks! I appreciate the good word!

Tim - Jan 07 2004
Thanks...it's a pleasure. That's what I'm here for!

Blessings,

Tim - Jan 06 2004
remember Amy Grant's "Thy Word"? It's the opening phrase... :)

TIm - Jan 06 2004